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Danilo_G
Element 99

THE DEVIL???

Ok so I know this has probably been asked a million times, but here goes.......if God is so all-powerful, why didn't he just eliminate the devil right at the start??  

and what exactly would the world be like today if Eve hadn't eaten the apple?

does that mean that childbirth would not be painful?

remember that was one of the things God said since Eve disobeyed him, that there'd be pain in giving birth....

and can you really believe that Noah had ALL those animals on the ark?

an atheist friend of mine said that if that were true, then Noah'd have to have had the AIDS virus on board too.......not sure I agree, but worth discussing, no?????????


and now I'll stop!!!

LOL

:-D

DYIN' to hear your thoughts on all this stuff.......either all of them, or just ones you like to reply to!!!!!!!!!

Posted - October 28, 2016

Responses


  • 3934
    I think comedian Bill Maher has an insightful take on this.

    The reason God doesn't wipe out The Devil is the same reason Superman doesn't kill Lex Luthor once and for all. Because then the story would be over.

    So Lex gets put into yet another prison from which he easily escapes, and The Devil gets to continue doing his thing because...REASONS!

    All because what humans really want isn't spiritual peace, but engaging narrative.
      October 28, 2016 8:26 AM MDT
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  • 1393
    very good OS. Worth more than one like
    not sure I though that I agree with "what humans really want isn't spiritual peace, but engaging narrative" I think humans are searching for peace within the engaging narrative.
    Now that you mention it, would there be the OS if there were no longer any SKOS, I wonder
      October 28, 2016 4:12 PM MDT
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  • Do you know how to eliminate evil from the human race? It's like asking the same thing. I'm not Christian but I'd assume that to know God.. you have to know the devil. I come from the belief that they are one in the same because God is a mere reflection of us.. it would make sense the devil is also a reflection because no human being is without both those traits no matter how much they like to convince others they are pure angels.

    So then we have to assume that to get rid of the devil we would also have to eliminate ourselves. So eliminating the devil would mean God would also have to annihilate himself :D This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at October 28, 2016 8:54 AM MDT
      October 28, 2016 8:52 AM MDT
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  • Also curiosity is a natural human trait that shouldn't be punished. Sometimes curiosity kills but for the good out there it lets us advance. So the Eve story is pure bull. Put any human in front of something and tell them not to do something and they will. Sometimes that has bad outcomes and sometimes it has great outcomes. Punishing humans for being human seems to me much like a paradox.
      October 28, 2016 8:57 AM MDT
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  • 1393
    good pists MU. Several points I agree with in your answer and in your comment in response to your own answer
      October 28, 2016 4:20 PM MDT
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  • 6988
    People are animals, or mammals. We have certain instincts built into us, including a survival instinct that includes killing our competition for food and sex. Not very civil!  So along comes God with an offering to be civil and just. It is called religion. 
      October 28, 2016 6:41 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Hi Ben1011, here is an interesting article on the subject. Be sure and look up the scriptures. If you don't want to read the whole article, scroll down to: A Vital Issue Is Raised

     

    http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005141?q=%22A+VITAL+ISSUE+IS+RAISED%22&p=par

    CHAPTER ELEVEN

    Why Does God Allow Suffering?

    • Has God caused the suffering in the world?

    • What issue was raised in the garden of Eden?

    • How will God undo the effects of human suffering?

      October 28, 2016 11:39 PM MDT
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  • 1393

    First even if we “know this has probably been asked a million times” before, provided we haven’t yet got a satisfactory answer I think we should keep asking.

    1- Your first point was “if God is so all-powerful, why didn't he just eliminate the devil right at the start??”
    You’re obviously talking about the Abrahamic narrative, so I’ll be quoting from the Holy Bible, both the Christian scripture the NT [New Testament] and the Jewish section which Christians refer to as the Old Testament [OT] even though it was the scripture Jesus taught from. The Abrahamic faiths include Islam whose scripture is the Holy Qur’an [HQ] regarded by Muslims as the FT [Final Testament]. The HQ’s take on the first part of your question is that God is unique, and He “created in pairs everything, from that which the earth grows, from their own [human’s] selves, and from that which they know not” So plants have male and female parts, as do humans, and you need light to eliminate dark, you need hot to know cold, positive to balance or fight off the negative and there is no high if there isn’t any low, to give just a few examples. Elsewhere the HQ says, “…and the soul and that which gives it balance, by inspiring it with its weaknesses and its strengths [bad and good]. So he has succeeded [won] who has purified it [developed his soul with good] and he has lost who buried it [didn’t listen to his souls good inspiration]” 

    2- “and what exactly would the world be like today if Eve hadn't eaten the apple?”

    To begin with, in contrast to the HB, the HQ doesn’t present Eve as the first to give in to Evil. It says they were both equally misled into doing what they were told not to. They did the equivalent of pressing a red button clearly marked “Do Not Press Without Authorisation” They did. As a direct consequence they fell through a trap door and found themselves out of the Utopian world they were in. There was now no way back except through proving themselves worthy of being readmitted in.

    3- “does that mean that childbirth would not be painful?”

    It is clear from the narratives that both Adam and Eve were not aware of their sexuality before they ate of the forbidden fruit. It is after eating the fruit that they became aware and immediately started covering up their nakedness with leaves from the garden of bliss. So we’re speculating now if we talk about what would have happened if they hadn’t eaten the forbidden fruit. Perhaps sexual awareness would have come through another way and led to pregnancy. Whereas the HB pronounces painful childbirth as a punishment, the HQ makes no mention of punishment implying that the loss of paradise was itself enough to emphasise the gravity of their error.

    It is interesting to note that the HB calls the tree "the tree of the knowledge of good and bad". That means Adam and Eve could not have known good from bad BEFORE they ate from the tree, and thus could not be said to have sinned when they ate. It is only AFTER they ate that they suddenly realised that it was bad to give in to temptation, to disobey a command and to walk around naked.

    4- “can you really believe that Noah had ALL those animals on the ark?”

    In the HQ’s version of the story the flood was local and the losers were those who instead of heeding Noah’s warnings mocked him for building an ark when there was no sea in sight. As such the animals in Noah's ark were only those in the affected area and not those all over the world including the Americas, the Arctic and the Antipodes. So that's not so unbelievable.

    How's that for addressing all your points?

      October 29, 2016 12:38 PM MDT
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  • 604
    WOW you are amazing; wish I could be as logical as you are!! I wander here and there!!! 

    you did address ALL my points, and beautifully!!!!..........as for the ark 'story', I always thought the bible led us to believe it was 'all' the animals on the earth, but again, you've explained it wonderfully; after all, it WAS a local 'event' so to speak......but my impression over the years was that the Ark had to have had ALL the different animals, etc., which of course it couldn't........kinda sad to think we are raising our children with stories like this!!!!!!!!!! 

    so thanks again!!!!!!!
      October 30, 2016 12:09 PM MDT
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  • 1393
    TY 4 your kind comments. I'm glad I answered all your questions and was able to shed some useful light on matters that were unclear.

    I study both the HB and the HQ so if there's any further information you'd like to know about either do let me know.
      November 1, 2016 6:33 AM MDT
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  • Every good and every evil lies within ourselves.  The texts that motivate, constrain or pervert hundreds of millions are just a left over attempt to forge an explanation for how we behave (and how we should behave) towards each other.

    For an all-powerful being, God, whichever incarnation one chooses, is an idiot or a manipulative sociopath or an invention of manipulative sociopaths.  Given the nonsense contained within large parts of the texts, I can assume no other possible explanations.

    Not a fan of religions, which seem to me to be other humans with no more experience or knowledge than I have (and sometimes considerably less) telling me they have 'secret' knowledge which can only be attained by thinking as they do.  I don't think they do have a secret, but I do think many wish they did.
      October 29, 2016 1:39 PM MDT
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  • 22891
    you need to ask god that question, its too complicated for us humans
      October 29, 2016 8:57 PM MDT
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  • 1326
    The bible does not state what kind of fruit was eaten by eve. 
    Genesis 3:16 says: "i will greatly increase the pain of your pregnancy; in pain you will give birth to children." thus this scripture indicates that birth pains for every greatly increased as a result of her disobedience.
    Even though eve ate first of the tree, the one God holds responsable is her husband adam, being he was here head. as eve's head Adam had been given direct instructions as to what was expected of him. for this reason 1 Timothy 2:14 says: "Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived,"
    So if Adam and eve had never sinned, the original home of the first couple would have been expanded as the human family had grown until it encompassed the entire planet. earth would be an entire paradise, living conditions being perfect without sin, man would be living in perfection soaring to unimaginable heights, who knows if at this point they would be readying to inhabit another earthlike planet if it was God's purpose. 
      October 31, 2016 5:38 PM MDT
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  • 46117
    I love the IF GOD IS SO...THEN HOW COME.... nonsense.

    Because you are NOT God, okay so you have an intellect the size of a grain of sand and God has an intellect the size of the expanding Universe so it is IMPOSSIBLE for the grain to understand the MIND OF GOD.

    Forget  trying.  You cannot ever do it.  EVER.
      October 31, 2016 6:31 PM MDT
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  • 1326
    Sharonna at this point you are harassing me, and i have already alerted am to this situation. they told me to keep  track of this so I can have evidence, I will not warn you again! I will turn the matter over to am.
      October 31, 2016 7:37 PM MDT
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