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Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » Are you really so sure that right-wing extremists aren't very dangerous, perhaps not as dangerous as ISIS extremists, but?

Are you really so sure that right-wing extremists aren't very dangerous, perhaps not as dangerous as ISIS extremists, but?

Now I know some people get a bit hot under the collar when I say right-wing extremists are dangerous and probably one of the other main threats to us/our societies and our countries, but hear me out. I was thinking, so what is it about right-wing extremists and extremists in general I don't like.. and I hit on a simple explanation I thought I would share.. 

The thing about extremists that worries me is.... that they are extremist! It's that their views are *extreme* and usually violently so. Their views are, by definition, NOT normal, they are not part of the norm and how normal people think.  There may be a fair few of them, and their numbers may be increasing, but they are NOT the majority. However, the DO seek to influence the majority and they do seek to convert people to their way of thinking..and as that thinking is often very racist and violent - AND they seek to *punish* those who disagree with them or who are *different* to their ideal - that has to be a thing we feel is either worrying or even dangerous right?

Perhaps those of our friends in the States who seem so vociferously in favour of racism and feeling it's acceptable, quoting free speech* etc as justification, don't EVER intend or want to encourage violence against minorities, or unfairness but using hate filled words and discrimination surely IS a step along that path.  (*btw we have free speech to, we just generally make sure that what we say is polite and doesn't call people names or incite violence.. so we can SAY what we like we just have to say it reasonably)  

Here in the UK we tend to be pretty much in favour of for equality and fair treatment of all, and find racism and openly supporting racist views quite shocking, but here's a story from the UK today about why extremist right-wing movements very much ARE dangerous when they seek to recruit and influence others... btw Jo Cox, killed in the name of right wing extremism is, as you can see, WHITE.

Neo-Nazis face ban after Cox murder
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/neo-nazis-face-ban-after-cox-murder-0hgm3r93q?shareToken=397ad4599af87e93e2813233f5ebdfe5

Posted - November 27, 2016

Responses


  • 1233
    There are extremists on both left and right. There are religious extremists. All extremists are dangerous. The question is, are they a significant threat to society? How many people are sympathetic to the cause? How much chance do they have of their cause succeeding?

    You shouldn't be concerned about right wing extremism because they are completely marginalized. When the extreme right does something awful, EVERYONE condemns it. The death of Cox was tragic but it's no threat to society. It was universally condemned and disavowed. Violence has no support.

    You should be a bit more concerned about far left extremism. It's more mainstream. When someone like Jeremy Corbyn can speak in a positive way about Fidel Castro (a communist psychopath who killed hundreds of thousands) that's a bit worrying.

    The radical Muslims are by far the biggest threat. 20% of British Muslims admit being sympathetic to ISIS.

    If society allows you to criticize something, you have little to fear from it. The time to start worrying is when it becomes politically incorrect to criticize it. The time to really start worrying is when it becomes criminal to criticize it.


    This post was edited by Zeitgeist at November 27, 2016 6:02 AM MST
      November 27, 2016 5:49 AM MST
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  • For sure there are extremists of all kinds.. I would never pretend otherwise although you never see people who say everyone is equal in terms of respect and treatment going around stabbing people.. they tend to be a bit hippy trippy love for all - so while there ARE extremists on that side too they tend not towards violence.  If they did then that would be a problem too.. but they dont...

    We definitely should be concerned about right wing because they are associated with violence and they DO commit hate crimes.. erm did you read the article?? Right wing extremists kill people and sometimes those people are white.. The lady in the article was a white mother of two I think.. she had done nothing wrong other than to voice support for staying in the EU... 

    So shock horror - right wing extremists kill white people too! If they don't agree with them then they are a target.. they said, of the mother who was shot dead, "she got what she deserved" but she had committed no crime and was a good person...

    SO how would you guys feel if these extemists started killing white people too?? Hmmm??

    And that's the point.. right wing extremism IS on the increase.. that's what i was telling you.. more are being referred to the Prevent programme for right wing extremism than ever..  Is a minority who actively commit hate crimes, promote violence AND kill WHITE people who disagree with them acceptable??? 

    LOL to the leftism comment that we should be more afraid of it cos it's more mainstream.. lol I am sure you didnt mean to be funny but... think about that statement for a moment... if it's maintream and accepted by most people.. then it isn't, by definition, extremist..  

    Have a think too about what leftism stands for and then you can see how what you say about us needing to be afraid of it is illogical.. lefts stand for everyone being treated fairly, of us all being one big happy family where no one is discriminated against, where everyone has equal opportunity, where black, white, and asians can all life alongside each other in harmony.. call me nuts but it's hard to see how that's actually dangerous, well apart from to racist bigots who might burst a few blood vessels over that.. Seriously while I am NOT an extremist left, or even terribly left at all, it's hard to see the threat here? 

    I voted leave EU and I am glad we, as a country did vote that way.. so i can hardly be accused of being a lefty.. but neither can i see how discriminating against people JUST cos they are a certain colour or race is ok... or that it's dangerous to NOT support those who are rightwing.. as i say it's definitely race and colour related as you seem pretty happy to accept people like Trumps wife into your country.. and trumpet himself with his half scots blood and german grandfather... That just makes it all the more illogical.

    Re communism.. we know that AMericans have this total and utter morbid fear of communism. I'd say. .remember being mainstream leftish or even extreme left is NOT communism...  Communism doesn't work .. it's been proven.. but neither is it inherrently evil so i refuse to be terrified of something that isnt even on the cards there's no way America is going to be under threat of turning communist just cos they have black and asian people..  

    Remember... Muslims are decidedly NOT communist.. they are also decidedly NOT leftist... that's perhaps important to bear in mind..

    The pope actually sent a VERY positive message to Fidal Castro's brother.... soo. when criticising Jeremy COrbyn. do bear in mind that a LOT of people had sympathy with Fidal Castro and that he was able to withstand America's attempts to interfere.. Before you get cross I never said I sympathise.. and i never said I support Jeremy Corbyn..

    Oh and re criticising..  I don't think you meant that we CANNOT criticise here... or that we are trying to prevent free speech.. but just to reassure you.. prevent, acts on vulnerable people, preventing extremist radicalisation.. it doesnt stop anyone criticising anyone or anything.. As i have said all along we have full free speech here.. you can say what you want.. but you don't get to spread hatred, to insult or call names...there's no  real reason to resort to that anyway as any sane reasoning human being can say what they think without resorting to hatefuelled language.. 

      November 27, 2016 9:36 AM MST
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  • And what percentage are sympathetic to Farage.
    I am extraordinarily grateful for your testimony to Cox, thank you. It was a horrific business that no one should glorify in. Btw, don't diss communists. If you do, you have me to contend with )
      November 27, 2016 4:06 PM MST
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  • 1233
    I love Nigel Farage. I find nothing extreme in his message at all. Pure common sense. I wish he were Prime Minister. 
      November 28, 2016 3:01 AM MST
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  • 1233
    The Cox case was an isolated murder committed by a man with a history of mental illness. You only have to worry when there are signs of organization. Why do you keep emphasizing the color of the victim as if that is supposed to have more impact on me? The color of the victim is irrelevant.

    "if it's mainstream and accepted by most people.. then it isn't, by definition, extremist..  "

    Wrong! I believe in objective reality. Just because everyone thinks something is normal doesn't make it true. It's still extreme when viewed objectively. God decides what is right and wrong, normal and abnormal, not us. By your logic if the whole word started started killing and eating each other, cannibalism would be normal and nothing to worry about. 

    Radical elements can never hurt society unless they capture the mainstream of that society. The goal of every radical is to create become new normal.

    The leftists are lovely people except to people are who aren't leftist. Open a history book and read about the 100 million it exterminated last century. Check out the hundreds of millions more who had everything stolen from them. The far left are not harmless hippies. They're seriously bad ass.

    Communism is inherently evil. It's just mass enslavement disguised with idealistic bullsh*t. That's not to say all communists are evil. Most are just naive. Though their intentions don't change the fact they are a threat to national security. I have nothing but contempt for the Pope. He is far left fool who is completely unworthy of his office. No moral compass whatsoever.

    As I said so many times Trump is not a racist or xenophobe. The fact that he has a Slovenian wife should be evidence of that. Trumps objection to unrestricted immigration is just for economic reasons and to prevent subversives entering the U.S..

    Islam is an ideology that is completely incompatible with western values. It's a theocracy. It's inseparable from government and the legal system. We've been in conflict with it for over a thousand years and that's not going to change. We must maintain our military and cultural dominance or they will take us over. That's what the Koran commands them to do. This post was edited by Zeitgeist at November 27, 2016 11:29 AM MST
      November 27, 2016 11:11 AM MST
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  • 3934
    "Wrong! I believe in objective reality." 

    "God decides what is right and wrong, normal and abnormal, not us."

    "Islam is....a theocracy"


    Wow! Are you ***naturally*** this much of a clueless hypocrite, or did you really have to work to achieve Peak Dunning Kruger?...;-D...
      November 27, 2016 11:30 AM MST
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  • 1233
    My belief in God and objective reality is not an endorsement of theocracy. I'm a strong believer in the separation between church and state.

    Just because I have beliefs doesn't mean I feel entitled to force others to share them. I'm quite happy for others to go their own way politically and spiritually, so long as they respect my right to go my own way. Sadly some political philosophies and religions are aggressive and have to be resisted. I'm not trying to make them share my beliefs, I just want to be left alone.

    Even if I did believe in theocracy, I still wouldn't be a hypocrite since obviously a theocracy is incompatible with any other form of government including other theocracies.

    As usual you have no argument whatsoever. You don't understand what the word hypocrite means. I have not violated any of my principles.

      November 27, 2016 12:28 PM MST
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  • 3934
    @TrumpianDunningKruger --

    Sorry, but you cannot simultaneously claim there is an "objective reality" and claim that God determines what it is. That is a religious belief, and if your belief in how government/society should be structured is because "God said so", that makes you a theocrat.

    Now, you may be a more benign theocrat than some, but you're still a theocrat.

    Similarly, your belief that mass murder and oppression by "Good Christian nations" is somehow "not as bad" as the violence commited by Arabs/Muslims in the name of their religions is a religious taste-based belief.

    There is no "objective" reason why killing 100,000+ innocent civilians in pursuit of geopolitical goals is "better" than killing 50 heretics for religious goals.
      November 27, 2016 12:34 PM MST
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  • 1233
    Belief in God is my PERSONAL reason for believing in objective moral reality, but the concept is not dependent on spiritual beliefs. Many atheists believe in objective moral reality too. I therefore don't accept my asserting objective reality in a political discussion is theocratic. It's completely compatible with secular government.

    Besides, it's a purely philosophical concept that really has no practical effect on how government/society is structured. I was only asserting that it exists, not trying to lay down the law on what it is. So I think you protest too much.

    I never mentioned Christianity. I'm a nondenominational theist.

    I'm not an apologist for any of our misguided wars. I'm not responsible for whatever sins my government may have committed. It's not on me and it's not on society collectively. The state did that. The left need to start understanding the difference between the individual, society and the state.
      November 27, 2016 2:42 PM MST
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  • 3934

    @TrumpianDunningKruger -- To paraphrase you, words mean what they say you mean. And if you spend a thousand times as much attention on some Muslim zealot who beheads someone as you do on the fact the US dumped more bombs in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam conflict than all combatants in WWII, the fact you acknowledge it means your focus on TEH EBIL MUSLIMS is justified.

    "Objective reality" my left foot.

      November 27, 2016 3:04 PM MST
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  • 1233
    Irrelevant. I'm not talking about military conflict. I'm taking about multiculturalism.

    My argument here is that the west and Islam are incompatible and their integration is impossible. Multiculturalism will fail, so accepting Muslim immigration is folly. I'm not saying it will fail because of radicals. I'm saying it will fail because the AVERAGE westerner and AVERAGE Muslim have values that are too different. 
      November 27, 2016 4:36 PM MST
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  • ahem.. it was a) not isolated and b) there is an organisation, several of them one of which is the BNP.. sorry no offence but when you tell someone something is purple and they just keep right on insisting it's yellow.. then it's pretty hard to have a reasonable discussion about it.. It's interesting you seem to feel you know more than the British Government and the British people...  

    I truly could answer all the other points but as above...but oh go on then just one small example.. God decides you say.. but you hate the Pope.. hmmm truly I cannot begin to dissect the logic there...well I could but... lol the illogic of your arguments are such that whatever I say, whatever the evidence is, you will still prefer to act head in sand and call it yellow.. This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at November 27, 2016 12:52 PM MST
      November 27, 2016 12:49 PM MST
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  • 1233
    I'm not catholic. They may believe he's God's representative on earth, but I don't.
      November 27, 2016 3:09 PM MST
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  • I truly never said you were catholic.. but they believe in God as do you, by your own admission. If you look at the history of Christianity you will see... oh never mind lol but point is with respect you are very, very, very selective and sometimes incredibly illogical in what you believe.. but that's you... you are you and it truly wouldn't matter what I said.. 
      November 27, 2016 3:12 PM MST
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  • 1233
    If you were trying to say that Christianity supports left wing values, that's your false interpretation.

    Christianity teaches charity not socialism and free will not extortion. This post was edited by Zeitgeist at November 27, 2016 4:39 PM MST
      November 27, 2016 4:34 PM MST
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  • NO that was far from what I was saying.. very far and I might get into trouble if I even try to address that comment about charity, socialism and extortion.. so I think we had best leave it there.. as I say my honest feeling is that it truly wouldn't matter what i said, how I said it or that I can back it up with evidence..and did.. so there's no point. Have a great evening. 
      November 27, 2016 4:42 PM MST
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  • 46117
    Any type of extremist is dangerous.


    Balance is good.  Extreme is too much.

    Simple.
      November 27, 2016 12:30 PM MST
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  • 2515
    No, neither side, no matter how extreme, has any political power. The only ones with power are the top .01%. So we don't have to worry about the 99%. 

    We should all work together to take their power away. Trump sure isn't going to do it. 
      November 27, 2016 3:11 PM MST
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