Discussion»Questions»Family» A 10-week-old baby tests positive for meth and other drugs. Parents Tabitha Shannon and Roy Beauchamp get the credit. What punishment fits?
I think if giving birth to a child addict would be severe enough for most normal people. These people are so sick that didn't even enter the equation. They need forced rehab, jail time and loss of that child for good. Time to adopt the baby out if anyone will even be there to take it.
I wonder if drug-addicted babies are in pain? Withdrawal must not be pleasant in any case. Starting off life physically harmed/disadvantaged like that is so sad. I guess long-term consequences depend upon how much of the drugs the addict took while pregnant. Thank you for your thoughtful reply Sharonna! :)
Women who continue to drink while pregnant can produce a fetal alcohol syndrome child. I knew one. The physical configuration of the face was slightly different from normal. He was a very sweet kid and studied photography and I think eventually made a living at it. Thank you for your reply Glis.
I also think women who drink alcohol while pregnant and produce fetal alcohol syndrome children should get some kind of punishment. Very tragic. Thank you for your reply m2c! :)
I know someone who knows someone, (family member) who recently adopted a few day old baby who was born to drug addict mother.... The baby was put up for adoption straight away and a lot of care was needed to help her get through her own addiction and withdrawal - poor little mite.. I guess I have mixed feelings.. compassion for the mother in a way, as we don't know why or how she was addicted, perhaps she was coerced, forced into prostitution and made into an addict, perhaps she was abused herself and this was her only way of dealing with the pain.... we don't know - so i don't feel any anger towards the mother...
I do feel sorry for the child and I think being adopted or fostered was the right thing to do for that baby... I guess I also feel sorry for the mother tho who, even if it was her fault has lost the most precious thing a mother could ever have - her child
FWIW, there is a body of evidence which suggests over the long term being a so-called "crack baby" is not statisically different from being a "child of impoverished parents" baby.
Should we punish all poor people for having children?
Oh come on. No one severely impoverishes themselves on purpose. Many crackheads do NOT give two hoots who they hurt. They are out for kicks. Many of them are not even poor.
That is true about crack babies. That doesn't have any bearing on the possible negative effects of meth or any other drug on a newborn or fetus though. That's like saying since crack babies have few if any lasting effects then thalidomide babies should be okay.
having consequences for using drugs and getting your unborn baby addicted to drugs is punishing people for being poor. It's punishing their POS actions that caused them to inflict damages and health problems on their baby by being neglectful and putting their own pleasures above the safety and well being of a child they created. Sheesh!
This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at December 22, 2016 7:55 AM MST
There are numerous teratogens that mothers can potentially expose their unborn child to. Just off the top of my head: second-hand tobacco smoke, alcohol, environmental lead, air pollution, HPA-activating stress (e.g. an abusive relationship), and on and on.
Are we going to demonize and criminalize mothers for every "mistake" they make?
Or are we, as a society, going to own up to the reality that many other societies with similar rates of unwed sexual activity have significantly lower rates of unwanted pregnancies, and try to emulate those societies? (Hint: Probably no, because those societies tend to practice Teh Ebil Socialism).
However, the term other drugs as well as methamphetamines, used in this question refers to drug addicts of some sort. Many are impoverished, many are not. Comparing these 2 druggies to the poor, is like apples and oranges. I realize the whole argument winds up being vague because there is no real story to base this on much less people and how they behave in this circumstance. There are too many variations that cannot be supported. The rest of your commentary is quite correct.
Oh you're right. They are drug addicts and therefor victims. They have no culpability for there choices to hurt a baby for their own pleasure. They did nothing wrong. We should give them money and maybe they will change.
@Glis -- You are welcome to demonstrate my use of the Straw Man Fallacy at your discretion.
You may find many of my arguments annoying, but I am uncertain you can demonstrate they are fallacious.
This post was edited by OldSchoolTheSKOSlives at December 22, 2016 8:47 AM MST
you have consistently used them from the first disagreement we ever engaged in. I just assume that's how we do together? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, no? Or is it a one way kind of thing?
All I've ever gotten was strawman "no true Scotsman" arguments.
Don't drugs cost money? How can these poor people afford the cost of the drugs? Do they all prostitute themselves? What about fetal alcohol syndrome babies? Women who willing drink alcohol while pregnant or women who willingly take drugs while pregnant are damaging the life within. Whether rich or poor why does financial status matter? I think if you are a drug addict or a drunk you shouldn't have kids. If you can get clean and kick the habit for good then maybe. Selfish/thoughtless/cold/uncaring is not something unique to the poor. That is what the woman is guilty of...selfish/thoughtless/cold/uncaring actions. Mahalo for your reply OS! :)
@RosieG -- Re: "I think if you are a drug addict or a drunk you shouldn't have kids."
Oh, I agree. But I don't see a practical social disincentive that doesn't ultimately become either become prejudical (e.g. Rich White Women give their babies fetal alcohol syndrome with no sanction, while poor/urban/ethic mothers get demonized for crack/meth use) or Orwellian (requiring the state to monitor every behavior of mothers for potential harm).
And here's another aspect to consider. If we demonize mothers for actions with potentially negative consequences to their unborn children, are those women going to seek out help and proper medical care so their children have the best chance of a normal life? Or are they going to stay away from official institutions because they're afraid they'll be arrested? Who do we blame then when a child is born with birth defects due to folic acid deficiency because his or her Mom was too scared to go to the doctor?
This post was edited by OldSchoolTheSKOSlives at December 22, 2016 10:08 AM MST
I've actually done a lot of research on this for some of my writing projects. Punishment is not effective. Yes, it makes us feel better- we've gotten our vengeance, but it doesn't do anything about the underlying problem.
What does help, however, is intervention and support. Most parents know they have a problem and want help, but the resources aren't there and there's a lot of fear that if they do take advantage of assistance when it's offered, they'll face consequences, so they don't. In research trials where parents were explicitly told they would not face consequences or lose their children for admitting they had a problem, the vast majority got help and went on to live a healthier life. In these cases, the parents got all kinds of support- from drug rehab to parenting classes at no cost. It was highly effective in solving the problem. It didn't work every time, but it worked most of the time.
The problem is, we get mad about these things and want our pound of flesh. We should be thinking about the end goal here. What do we want? Do we want families to stay intact and be healthy? Interventions and services work. Do we want the kids to stay out of the system and save the government money? Interventions and services work. Do we want those people feel the pain of their actions... well, sure, punishment does that, but having to rebuild and become healthy is hard as well.
As much as I'm angry when parents hurt their kids, I'd rather put that anger aside and offer them the help they need to end the cycle.
My overwhelming feeling is that if it were as simple as making a choice then people would.. the trouble with serious drug addiction and alcoholism is that once you get to that point it's not as simple as making a choice... you are addicted... and at that point perhaps aren't capable of making or effecting change.. it's just not that simple...
So I agree with JA...punishment isn't the answer.. they are already in some level of hell on earth.
WM BARR . =ABSOLUTE TRASH 