Active Now

Danilo_G
Element 99
Discussion » Questions » Life and Society » If a man LIED to get a woman into bed, is that fraud, rape, or men being men?

If a man LIED to get a woman into bed, is that fraud, rape, or men being men?

Posted - October 15, 2016

Responses


  • 5808
    Men being sexual predators
      October 15, 2016 12:35 PM MDT
    2

  • Exactly!!
      October 15, 2016 2:31 PM MDT
    2

  • 2500
    If a woman lied to get a man (breast enlargement, tummy-tuck, Botox, wearing expensive perfume, wearing fancy clothing, being two-faced as in nice to him and nasty about him behind his back) is that fraud?
      October 15, 2016 1:22 PM MDT
    3

  • 17364
    None of that is lying.  That is simply working to look as good as you can even with artificial means, except the part about being a two-faced biche.  Fraud requires that the victim had an injury by relying on the fraud. 
      October 15, 2016 7:05 PM MDT
    2

  • 2500
    Sorry, can't agree with your opinion. It IS lying.

    I can only point out that it's a pack of lies that's been told for so long, mainly by those that profit from it, that our society has come to believe it to be true. And the sad part is that women don't have to do that to look beautiful and alluring. Case in point is Alicia Keys. She was always one hot petunia but lately she's stopped wearing make-up and she looks SO much better still; absolutely gorgeous, like a real person. 
      October 15, 2016 9:48 PM MDT
    1

  • Come on Salt, by that logic, you wouldn't even use deodorant, or give yourself haircuts, or shave, or wear clothes that accentuate a better look for your body.  If were to adhere to that mentality and strive to only look natural without ANY kind of enhancement, we might as well walk around like our trashbag wearing friend.
    Although, and I give you this, if we are going strictly by the definition of lies, to misrepresent the truth in order to get what we want, then in that way. You may be right. Yes?
      October 16, 2016 2:27 AM MDT
    0

  • 2758
    Fraud.  Presumably the woman gave consent under false pretenses.  Rape/assault necessarily requires force/violence.

      October 15, 2016 3:20 PM MDT
    1

  • 3934
    Are there degrees of fraud? Is "I'll respect you in the morning"  a greater fraud then "My Mercedes is paid for"?...;-D...
      October 15, 2016 3:37 PM MDT
    0

  • 2758
    "Are there degrees of fraud?"

    Certainly!

    "Is "I'll respect you in the morning" a greater fraud then "My Mercedes is paid for"?...;-D... "

    IMO, yes. :-)

    Neither one, however, constitutes rape. It's important that the definition of such terms remains strict and universally understood. Anyone who alters the meaning of words by way of diffusion isn't doing the victims of rape/fraud any favors. That this question even has to be asked proves my point.

    Fraud is fraud.
    Rape is rape.

      October 15, 2016 3:48 PM MDT
    0

  • 3934
    Once again establishing FTLs are desperately short in the humor department....:-(.... This post was edited by OldSchoolTheSKOSlives at October 15, 2016 4:19 PM MDT
      October 15, 2016 4:19 PM MDT
    0

  • 17364
    It depends on the lie and the injury suffered by the other partner by relying on the fraud.   
      October 15, 2016 4:14 PM MDT
    1

  • What do you mean by relying on the fraud Thrifty? 
    I don't understand that.  Would you explain it to me?
      October 16, 2016 2:20 AM MDT
    0

  • 17364
    Act based on your belief of the lie.  In other words you would not have done the act if you had not been lied to AND believed the lie.  There must also be damages.
      October 16, 2016 2:36 AM MDT
    0

  • Thanks T, I understand.
      October 16, 2016 2:44 AM MDT
    0

  • I'd say it was humans being human. Both men and women manipulate each other sexually, just in different ways.

    If a man exaggerates his social status to be more attractive, that's disingenuous. Though the only reason it works is because of the woman's materialism and instinct for social climbing, which isn't exactly virtuous either.

    If a woman uses her sexuality for gold digging, she's a whore. Though what does that make him? A fool who didn't know he was a john because he thinks with his d*ck. That isn't exactly virtuous either.

    Sometimes people genuinely are deceived. Though much of the time people choose to embrace what they know deep down isn't true. For example, most cultures teach women that engaging in casual sex is shameful. So if she sleeps with a guy she knows is using her for sex she might feel like a slut. Though if he pretends to have feelings for her, she has a way to avoid guilt. She can choose to embrace his lies, decide that it's not casual sex and put all the responsibility onto him. Transparent euphemisms like "Do you want to watch Netflix and chill?" allow people to avoid taking responsibility for a choice and pretend that it "just happened". This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at October 15, 2016 4:23 PM MDT
      October 15, 2016 4:16 PM MDT
    0

  • 17364
    In the USA this type of fraud is generally related to STDs, sterility, or birth control.  There has to be an injury caused by the victim's reliance on the fraud.  Victims are not easily successful from a criminal standpoint, but the standard of proof is much lower in civil court so we see more successful lawsuits than convictions.  This adds to the reputation of women as 'always looking for a way to get money from men."   I personally don't think a lawsuit should be allowed if the woman didn't press criminal charges in a timely manner.....................not four or twenty years later.

      October 15, 2016 4:33 PM MDT
    1

  • Do you think that assault, sexual in this case, should be forgiven after a certain amount of time? I'm not talking about anybody in particular. I'm talking general.
      October 16, 2016 2:31 AM MDT
    0

  • 17364
    I can't answer that and would not tell someone else what they should do about forgiving.  I know that we forgive for ourselves; it allows us to move forward.   If hatred keeps you from forgiving you are hurting yourself only.  But people have to find out things like that for themselves.

      October 16, 2016 2:42 AM MDT
    0

  • I understand all that, I'm talking about the statute of limitations. (I should have been less vague)
      October 16, 2016 2:47 AM MDT
    0

  • 17364
    Running of the SOL is not forgiveness.  There is an SOL for every crime and civil action other than murder and fraud on the government.
      October 16, 2016 12:27 PM MDT
    0

  • I understand,
    Thanks Thrifty.
      October 16, 2016 1:06 PM MDT
    0

  • I'd like to run an idea by you Austrian, if you don't mind.
    Do you not think that we, all of us, have different goals in life? And th a according to those goals is the effort we are willing to put forth in the expectations of certain rewards?
    If I have a mind to certain accomplishment that I want to attain, wouldn't I be looking to share my life with someone like minded.
    I certainly wouldn't want to pair off with someone who has no ambition and it's ok having Ramen and Pop Tarts for dinner.
    Although I do understand and agree with you when you use the term "gold digger" in reference to some people ( not just women), like I said, although I do understand that, I certainly also understand how a woman with ambition for something better would give a guy with none the cold shoulder, I certaily wouldn't call her a w****. Do you think I'm wrong, Austrian?
      October 16, 2016 2:19 AM MDT
    0

  • We all have animal instincts. Women are programmed to seek men of wealth, ability and social status who can support families. Men are programmed to seek young nubile women who display signs of fertility. Men have polygamous instincts (i.e. many at the same time). Women have hypergamous instincts (i.e. one at a time but an instinct to dump him if a better opportunity comes along.)

    It isn't wrong to have those impulses. It's just nature. Though it is wrong to allow those impulses to control our behaviour to the extent of lying, breaking promises, manipulation etc etc. We are more than animals.

    Calling a woman a whore is a bit taboo because some people think any harsh criticism of a woman's behaviour is misogyny. Strangely women aren't seen by society as individuals. Expressing disgust at the behaviour of one woman tends to be seen as disgust at women in general. Society doesn't see men that way. Calling a man a perv, letch, dog etc etc is seen as just a criticism of him personally.
      October 16, 2016 3:29 AM MDT
    1

  • I understand all that Austrian, but my question is a lot simpler than that. I was trying to ask if a woman is to be looked at as a gold digger or a w**** (it's immaterial to me why you choose to use that term, I choose not to), like I was saying, is she to be disparaged for preferring men with certain financial status.
      October 16, 2016 3:45 AM MDT
    0