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Discussion » Questions » Legal » The reactions to the OJ Simpson criminal verdict (1995) were largely split along ethnic lines. In the George Floyd case, doesn’t murder look
Randy D

The reactions to the OJ Simpson criminal verdict (1995) were largely split along ethnic lines. In the George Floyd case, doesn’t murder look

like murder?

  I doubt that many people, regardless of their ethnicity, see anything other than murder in the video of Chauvin kneeling on Floyd’s neck for 9 minutes.

  Please understand that I am NOT referring to juris prudence, criminal trial procedure, direct examination of witnesses, cross examination of witnesses, comparisons between the judges and attorneys in the two different trials, witness testimony, credibility of witnesses, expert witnesses, medical evidence, police department policies, use of force regulations, narcotics history, the former officer’s complaint history, rules of evidence, admissibility or inadmissibility of evidence, jury instructions, jury deliberations, none of the above. I am well aware that no matter what public opinion is, the members of the jury will ultimately make the decision in what they learn from what’s presented to them in the courtroom.

  I am merely asking if what people saw in the video taken in Floyd’s last minutes alive is in their laymen’s opinions an example of murder, or is not an example of murder.

Posted - April 5, 2021
Tags : None

Responses


  • 10042
    I have not seen the video and don't intend to. From the descriptions I've read, it sounds like murder. 
      April 5, 2021 7:25 PM MDT
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  • 32663
    Yes. Looking at the video...I saw and still see murder.  

    But knowing more information, do think there is a chance the officer will get off or get a lesser charge. 

    Based on 2 things:

    1. Floyd took an overdose amount of Fentanyl during the arrest.  (This likely explains the how he went from talking calmly to the police on the sidewalk to being face down next to the car....the drug kicked in and he started to fight and resist arrest)

    2. There is a similar neck hold that is allowed and legal for a handcuffed suspect who is still resisting.  It is called "maximal restraint technique." But Floyd was not placed in the proper postion...he should have been on his side not stomache. The "recovery position."


    So I believe it will come down to cause of death. Overdose or improper position during the maximal restraint technique.  

    I was shocked to learn there was such a neck hold that was legal. And believe there should be a national law preventing any and all neck hold usage to subdue, control or take down etc any suspect.  This post was edited by my2cents at April 6, 2021 8:25 AM MDT
      April 5, 2021 7:50 PM MDT
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  • 16240
    Fentanyl, being an opioid, would NOT cause him to "start to fight and resist arrest", in fact quite the opposite. Narcotic painkillers have a sedative effect, I know from experience. I'm prepared to bet that the officers deliberately either overtighened the cuffs, or nipped him with them - and he was merely trying to relieve painful restraint. Chauvin in particular had a long history of brutalising minorities in making arrests, he should have been fired years ago.
      April 6, 2021 7:12 PM MDT
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  • 32663
    Maybe...I do not know. 

    But I know something changed in his behavior. From the sidewalk to the car.  He resisted getting into the car. That is not in dispute. It is on video. 

    I personally know people on opiods too...it affects people differently as do all drugs. Some get calm and others get crazy.  

    As said before Unions prevent the firing of bad employees and give good employees a bad name. (Not only police unions) 

    And if they did something like putting the cuffs too tight....all the more reason....do not fight the cops. Especially a bad one...he has all the power.  It never goes well for you. Do not give a bad cop cover by resisting. 

    We have encountered this twice with my husband. Once about 20 yrs ago and once about 12 yrs ago.  Two different officers and two different areas.  My husband did not take the bait and fight. He followed directions and told the officer he was not going to provoke him into doing something stupid.  After bailing out, he went back to the station and made a complaint against the officer. I know the first one did eventually get fired. (I am certain there were more complaints). I do not know for sure what happened with the more recent one. We are not as connected to people here to know the gossip. 


    Every person should know....do NOT fight police. 

    We also know Floyd continued to fight police while cuffed...from the video and from witness testimony saying he told Floyd to stop fighting and just get in the car. 
      April 6, 2021 8:02 PM MDT
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  • 44228
    Isn't 'Hanging by the neck til dead.' still a punishment?
      April 5, 2021 8:12 PM MDT
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  • 52936

     

      ????????

      April 5, 2021 9:35 PM MDT
    0

  • 44228
    Fitting one for Chauvin.
      April 6, 2021 1:23 PM MDT
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  • 52936

     

      You’re aware of the question I posted, correct?
    ___

      April 6, 2021 2:54 PM MDT
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  • 44228
    Example of murder.
      April 6, 2021 7:35 PM MDT
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  • 13257
    1993 1995. The murders occurred in June 1994, and the verdict was handed down in October 1995.
      April 5, 2021 9:59 PM MDT
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  • 52936
    Thanks!
    ~
      April 6, 2021 7:57 AM MDT
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  • 9872
    Chauvin killed Floyd. That is homicide. I probably don't fully understand the nuances of murder versus manslaughter, but I find it hard to believe that Chauvin didn't understand what the result of his actions would or could be. 
      April 6, 2021 4:54 AM MDT
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  • 19942
    I agree with you.  I'm not positive, but off the top of my head (as opposed to Googling it), I believe murder applies when there's premeditation.  Manslaughter is the lesser charge for something that happens in the heat of the moment or when self-defense is claimed.
      April 6, 2021 2:07 PM MDT
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  • 52936

     

      You are correct.

    • First-degree murder. A deliberate, premeditated killing is generally considered first-degree murder wherein the defendant planned the killing (as in a poisoning). The evidence could have indicated a plan or premeditation to commit the crimes.

    • Second-degree murder. In the widely-reported shooting death of Florida teen Trayvon Martin, the prosecutor in Seminole County, Florida, charged neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman with second-degree murder. The reason that the prosecutor charged Zimmerman with second-degree murder is that Zimmerman shot Martin but there was no evidence that the killing was premeditated. To win a conviction of Zimmerman on the charge, the prosecutor needed to prove to the jury that Zimmerman intended to inflict grievous bodily harm on Martin.

    • Felony murder. Let’s assume by way of example that Bonnie and Clyde rob a bank. Clyde shoots and kills the guard during a confrontation. Clyde is charged with first-degree murder. Bonnie is charged with felony murder because the guard died during Bonnie’s participation as an accomplice in committing the dangerous felony of armed robbery. Now let’s assume instead that Bonnie waits behind the wheel of the getaway car while Clyde robs the bank. After the robbery, Clyde jumps into the car and Bonnie speeds off, accidentally hitting and killing a pedestrian. Both Bonnie and Clyde are charged with felony murder because they accidentally killed the pedestrian while committing a dangerous felony.

    • Involuntary manslaughter. This often refers to unintentional homicide from criminally negligent or reckless conduct. It can also refer to an unintentional killing through the commission of a crime other than a felony. 

    • Voluntary manslaughter. When a murder charge is reduced to manslaughter due to mitigating circumstances, such as heat of passion or diminished capacity, the reduced charge is sometimes voluntary manslaughter.

    This is not all-inclusive, as it doesn’t show third-degree murder nor the various other types of manslaughter charges.

    Source: defenselawyer.com
    ~

      April 6, 2021 2:39 PM MDT
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  • 9872
    I looked up the actual charges and what they mean in Minnesota. There's a longer version, but this is the gist of it.

    1. Second Degree Murder – Unintentional – While Committing a Felony 
    2. Third Degree Murder – Perpetrating Eminently Dangerous Act and Evincing Depraved Mind
    3. Second Degree Manslaughter – Culpable Negligence Creating Unreasonable Risk 
      April 6, 2021 4:49 PM MDT
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  • 9872
    Not quite. I looked up the charges and what they mean in Minnesota and posted it in reply to Randy.  
      April 6, 2021 4:57 PM MDT
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  • 52936

     

      You’ve made a good point that from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, there are subtle differences in the definitions.   
    ~

      April 6, 2021 5:09 PM MDT
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  • 19942
    I had a feeling the definitions might change a bit depending on jurisdiction.  Thank you.
      April 6, 2021 5:32 PM MDT
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  • 16240
    Murder. OJ wasn't filmed committing anything (although there was plenty of circumstantial evidence). There is film footage of Chauvin using unwarranted force that proved lethal.
      April 6, 2021 6:14 PM MDT
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