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Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and their eyes were opened; why shouldn't they became aware they could ask God forgiveness?

Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and their eyes were opened; why shouldn't they became aware they could ask God forgiveness?

If Adam had offered Eve as a human sacrifice to atone for their sin of disobedience should God have accepted?
I am sure Eve would have been willing to die in order to save the world from sin suffering and death and save Jesus from crucifixion thousands of years later. 

Posted - May 12, 2017

Responses


  • 52903


    (shouldn't they became couldn't they have become)

     
      May 12, 2017 5:46 AM MDT
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  • 1393

    I am sure Eve would have been willing to die in order to save the world from sin suffering and death and save Jesus from crucifixion thousands of years later.

     =====================================================================

    Eve may have been willing to die in order to save the world from sin suffering and death and save Jesus from crucifixion thousands of years later, but

    a] it would not have been acceptable as atonement according to how the Christian story goes. Eve was the one who sinned first and then led her partner Adam to sin. According to Christian theology these were perfect humans who sinned so God wanted a perfect human sacrifice as atonement. Eve was a sinner so her blood was tainted by sin and therefore not acceptable as the sacrifice. That’s the same reason why a new-born human baby could not be sacrificed. All humans were born with the so called original sin. Because humans were caught in this trap God came to the rescue and sent down His own son as a human being, a sinless one of course, and it was this sinless “human being” that was sacrificed as the atonement for mankind’s sins. However, it only works for your sins if you accept that’s how it happened.

    b] erm if Eve had died there and then as a sacrifice anyway, would there have been any world [humans] to save, apart from Adam?

      May 12, 2017 10:00 AM MDT
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  • 13395
    I think God did accept animal sacrifice;  maybe they could have gone and found a goat or something and tried that.

    According to a story that was excluded from the bible Eve was actually Adam's third wife. While Adam did not have a mate  he was 'doing it' with the animals but he wanted hugs and kisses so God made his first wife Lilith but she rejected Adam and ran off to carouse with the demons.  So God made a second wife for Adam but she was not satisfactory to Adam so He took a rib from Adam to produce Eve and even Eve was slightly defective given into temptation by the serpent. So no reason why God could not have made Adam a fourth wife if Eve was sacrificed. This post was edited by Kittigate at May 12, 2017 1:33 PM MDT
      May 12, 2017 10:32 AM MDT
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  • 1393
    OK IC get rid of both of them and start again with another sinless Adam and Eve pair. Interesting.
      May 12, 2017 1:33 PM MDT
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  • 1393

    Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and their eyes were opened; why shouldn't they became aware they could ask God forgiveness?

     =====================================================================

    That reads like a cross between the Bible’s version of the story and that of the HQ.


    1- “the tree of knowledge”?

    a] Nearly there for the Biblical version. The full title of the tree in the Bible is “The tree of the knowledge of good and evil”

     

    b] The HQ doesn’t give the tree any description.

     

    2- “Adam and Eve ate” and were both equally guilty of disobedience?

    a] that is the HQ version

     

    b] In the Bible a serpent persuades Eve to eat from the tree first and it is Eve who then persuades Adam to do the same

     

    3- “they could ask God forgiveness“?

    a] There is no forgiveness in the Christian theological version [note: Christian theological, not Biblical. There is a very important difference]

     

    b] In the HQ we’re told that Adam learned words of forgiveness and was forgiven.

      May 12, 2017 11:02 AM MDT
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  • 13395
    All right.  Maybe i'll pick up a HQ one of these days for a bit of study material. 
      May 12, 2017 12:19 PM MDT
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  • 1393
    good for you. It'll give you a wider perspective and knowledge about what your Muslim friends/neighbours believe, if you have any. 
      May 12, 2017 1:39 PM MDT
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  • 1393

    Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and their eyes were opened; why shouldn't they became aware they could ask God forgiveness?

    If Adam had offered Eve as a human sacrifice to atone for their sin of disobedience should God have accepted?

    I am sure Eve would have been willing to die in order to save the world from sin suffering and death and save Jesus from crucifixion thousands of years later.

    =====================================================

    Below are the results of a study. Feel free to point out any flaws you can see.

     

    1- The Adam and Eve story is in what Christians call the OLD Testament. This is also called the Jewish or Hebrew scripture. It was the scripture of Jesus as he was, of course, a Jew. Christians regard the part of the Bible they call the NEW Testament as their scripture. Jews, of course, don’t recognise that as scripture.


    2- Christian theology has it that Adam, created sinless, was perfect but lost that perfection when he sinned by eating the forbidden fruit from the Garden of Eden. As a result all children of Adam, that is the whole of humanity, is born carrying the sin of Adam, the so called Original Sin. Christians further believe that sin can only be atoned for by shedding sacrificial animal blood. The sins that man commits during his life could be atoned for by sacrificing animals. However, the Original Sin that man carries as a result of what Adam did in the Garden of Eden cannot be atoned for by mere animal sacrifice. This sin was committed by a perfect man so its atonement needs the sacrifice of a perfect, meaning sinless, man. From where will man get a sinless human to sacrifice when every baby is born with sin? Man is forever trapped in this sin with no hope of atonement [at-one-ment with God is not allowed for anyone with sin because God is holy] so God sent down His only begotten son as a sinless human for man to offer as a perfect sacrifice.

     

    3- However, Jesus never talked about the Original Sin and a study of the Adam and Eve story in Genesis does not show that Adam sinned or that he became separated from God as a result of the sin. Indeed we can see that there was at-one-ment [atonement] between God and the human couple without any sacrifice. Genesis says that God Himself made garments for both Adam and Eve. The couple did indeed disobey God’s clear command according to Genesis. However, at the time they did so they had no idea what good or evil meant. Why? Because they had not yet eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Naturally it is ONLY AFTER they had eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that they knew that disobeying clear commands was evil, because it was only then that they became aware of what was good and what was evil. That is why it is at that point only that they quickly started covering their private parts with fig leaves because it was only then that they saw walking around naked in the open as evil. So according to Genesis the so called Original Sin clearly does not exist. No Original Sin means no need for a perfect sacrifice. No need for a perfect sacrifice means no need for God to send His only begotten son as a perfect human sacrifice. No need for Jesus to be divine and perfect and no need for a trinity.

      May 12, 2017 1:00 PM MDT
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  • 7280
    Christians further believe that sin can only be atoned for by shedding sacrificial animal blood. The sins that man commits during his life could be atoned for by sacrificing animals.
    ===============================================================
    Where did you hear that?

      May 12, 2017 1:27 PM MDT
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  • 1393
    good point TJ.  That was the result of trying to keep it short. Let me rephrase it and you can see if that says it better. 

    Christians further believe that according to the old covenant sin can only be atoned for by shedding sacrificial animal blood. The sins that man commits during his life could be atoned for by sacrificing animals. 
      May 12, 2017 1:57 PM MDT
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  • 13395
    Animal sacrifice reminds me of another story of how the devil came into existence..
    The blood of the animal was collected into a bucket and as part of the religious service people would confess their sins casting them into the container of blood then the blood would be smeared onto a goat and the goat driven far out into the wilderness thereby removing the sins away from the people. It was imagined that the goat would absorb all those sins thus making it become a very evil beast; image of the devil - a red goat.
      May 12, 2017 4:50 PM MDT
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  • 1393
    .... and source of the word scapegoat?
      May 13, 2017 11:51 AM MDT
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  • 13395
    Could be. 
      May 13, 2017 2:12 PM MDT
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  • 3680
    Thank-you _ I don't believe the story but I had always wondered what "original sin" meant.

    I wonder if the Hebrews who used it had collected it from elsewhere rather than devised it themselves.

    We'll probably never know its origins since all we have is the one ancient Hebrew book in the Bible and (I see - I didn't know that previously) the Qran. Would be interesting to establish the real origins of these legends, but that would need writings long gone if they ever existed at all. The Genesis book, and other OT legends, may have been collated from ancient oral traditions. 
      May 15, 2017 3:31 PM MDT
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