Active Now

Malizz
Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » Is it too early for us to get started on what Easter is all about?

Is it too early for us to get started on what Easter is all about?

Posted - March 29, 2018

Responses


  • 2657
    A sincere person would read and reason on the cited scriptures but as it is, someone is not. You have your preconceived ideas that you were just born in to the right religion, regardless of the fruits therein.

    It don't matter if Jesus said something if it is in other parts of the Bible. He didn't say any of the krap in the Quran and yet you believe that.
    It don't matter if Jesus said the EXACT words the EXACT way you make a play on words. Jesus did say that His blood was to be poured our in bEhalf of many for forgiveness of sins. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU? HOW DOES THAT FIT IN WITH YOUR: "HE DIDN'T DIE BUT SOMEONE THAT LOOKED LIKE HIM DID" OR HOWEVER YOU EXACTLY SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

    (Matthew 26:26-28) As they continued eating, Jesus took a loaf, and after saying a blessing, he broke it, and giving it to the disciples, he said: “Take, eat. This means my body.” 27 And taking a cup, he offered thanks and gave it to them, saying: “Drink out of it, all of you, 28 for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.

    (Leviticus 17:11) For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I myself have given it on the altar for you to make atonement for yourselves, because it is the blood that makes atonement by means of the life in it.

    Oh, you seemed to have dodged another:

    Show me from the Bible that God always granted atonement or forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood.

    If you find a verse in the Bible which show that the link between atonement/forgiveness of sins and blood sacrifice is breakable then please post it. Exact words as you would unreasonably expect when you pretend you are making a sincere request. 
      May 17, 2018 3:01 AM MDT
    0

  • 1393
    "If you find a verse in the Bible which show that the link between atonement/forgiveness of sins and blood sacrifice is breakable then please post it."

    I did. Numbers 31:50 Leviticus 5:11 show that atonement/forgiveness of sins without blood sacrifice [even the bit you might get from a turtle dove or pigeon] is possible and did happen according to those two verses.

    Now if you find a verse in the Bible which show that the link between atonement/forgiveness of sins and blood sacrifice is unbreakable then please post it but don't bury it in a mountain of scripture.

    Also, if you find any verse where Jesus taught that forgiveness of sin is impossible without shedding of blood, or that God would not forgive humanity unless a sinless man was sacrificed or that he was that sinless sacrifice to end all sacrifice then please post it but don't bury it in a mountain of scripture.
    btw Next time you feel the urge to post any comment about Islam or Muslims, here or anywhere else, do remember how objective you are on the subject before you compromise your own sincerity. Assuming, of course, that this quote represents your sincere view "He didn't say any of the krap in the Quran and yet you believe that."
      May 17, 2018 1:28 PM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    Guess you don't hold yourself to the same standards of exact wording:"If you find a verse in the Bible which show that the link between atonement/forgiveness of sins and blood sacrifice is breakable then please post it. Exact words as you would unreasonably expect when you pretend you are making a sincere request"
     Numbers 31:50 nor Leviticus 5:11 says exactly that, does it? I didn't find the word unbreakable in either verse, nor blood. 
    Sense you consider yourself to be studious, at least on those verses, why not give the context?

    What do your studies show as the context of Number 31:50 as to atonement for what? Is the circumstances any different than regular sin sacrifices?

    What do your studies show as to why someone in Lev 5:11 can use flour? Was that available to everyone?

    Some might think one is being hypocritical with all the taunts about the Bible and one cries foul when the Quran is brought up. Why don't you preach the Quran instead of trying to discredit the Bible?


    EDIT:
    I know, attacking the Bible is the subject you like best but why do they sacrifice camels and why do they eat them? Jot, tittle.


    Sura 22:36 And the camels and cattle We have appointed for you as among the symbols of Allah ; for you therein is good. So mention the name of Allah upon them when lined up [for sacrifice]; and when they are [lifeless] on their sides, then eat from them and feed the needy and the beggar. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may be grateful. This post was edited by texasescimo at May 17, 2018 1:59 PM MDT
      May 17, 2018 1:51 PM MDT
    0

  • 1393
    1. Deny it if you will, but the inescapable fact is those verses show that for the purpose of atonement/forgiveness of sins God can and did accept something other than blood sacrifice.

    2. It is obvious that when I ask for evidence from the Bible where Jesus taught some of the Christian doctrines you rather strangely and inexplicably call it "attacking on the Bible" or "taunts about the Bible". Imagine someone claimed he got from a maths book that 3+5=10 and you asked them for evidence from their maths book and their response is "you're attacking my maths book" or "those are taunts my maths book"

    3. "one cries foul when the Quran is brought up" is your wishful thinking. You quote from the Qur'an [a] as a diversion away from what I'm asking about the Bible and despite the fact that you consider the Qur'an to be krap. I leave you to think about your sincerity.
      May 17, 2018 6:54 PM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    Deny it if you will, but the inescapable fact is in most cases for most Jews, many verses show that for the purpose of atonement/forgiveness of sins God can and did require blood sacrifice.


    Sense you consider yourself to be studious, at least on those verses, why not give the context?

    What do your studies show as the context of Number 31:50 as to atonement for what? Is the circumstances any different than regular sin sacrifices?

    What do your studies show as to why someone in Lev 5:11 can use flour? Was that available to everyone?


    Why are you so afraid of the context?
    Why are you so afraid of the Quran?
    Why did Allah demand sacrifice of camels and cattle, did they not bleed?


    As far as Jesus giving his life for us, what does this tell you?

    (Matthew 26:26-28) As they continued eating, Jesus took a loaf, and after saying a blessing, he broke it, and giving it to the disciples, he said: “Take, eat. This means my body.” 27 And taking a cup, he offered thanks and gave it to them, saying: “Drink out of it, all of you, 28 for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.

    (John 1:29) The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and he said: “See, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
    (John 3:16, 17) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.
    (John 6:51) I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”
    (1 John 2:1, 2) My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. 2 And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.
    (1 John 4:14) In addition, we ourselves have seen and are bearing witness that the Father has sent his Son as Savior of the world. This post was edited by texasescimo at May 18, 2018 1:27 AM MDT
      May 18, 2018 12:38 AM MDT
    0

  • 1393
    I have to stick to the subject otherwise we'll wander all over the place

    and on this subject we have to agree to disagree
      May 18, 2018 4:33 AM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    The subject was rather or not it was too early for us to get started on what Easter is all about". You then as usual, tried to throw Paul under the bus even claiming that the importance of Easter can be traced back to Paul. WRONG!
    Paul nor any true Christian ever celebrated Easter. Just because the good news Paul preached died and was raised from the dead like the Hebrew scriptures and Jesus foretold, doesn't have anything to do with the pagan customs of Easter.
      May 18, 2018 5:26 AM MDT
    0

  • 1393
    I posted verses from the Bible itself which clearly show that for the purpose of atonement/forgiveness of sins God can and did accept something other than blood sacrifice. You don't accept that thereby insisting that God cannot and never did accept something other than blood sacrifice for the purpose of atonement/forgiveness of sins.

    For me that's the end of the road on that particular subject. So the only thing left is to agree to disagree and I'm happy to leave it there.
      May 18, 2018 11:32 AM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    Where did I say "that for the purpose of atonement/forgiveness of sins God cannot and did not accept something other than blood sacrifice.?
    Where did I say "that God cannot and never did accept something other than blood sacrifice for the purpose of atonement/forgiveness of sins."?

    There are at least two exceptions, I was just asking for the context on those two exceptions, wasn't I!

    Notice what I did say:
    What do your studies show as the context of Number 31:50 as to atonement for what? Is the circumstances any different than regular sin sacrifices?

    What do your studies show as to why someone in Lev 5:11 can use flour? Was that available to everyone?

    HINT: One was for a specific situation that included unique disobedient acts. One had to do with what they could afford. 

    Someone that claims to be so studious but cannot or will not give the context is either not humble or dishonest. Someone like the Pharisees claims to see.
    (John 9:40, 41) Those of the Pharisees who were with him heard these things, and they said to him: “We are not blind also, are we?” 41 Jesus said to them: “If you were blind, you would have no sin. But now you say, ‘We see.’ Your sin remains.”


      May 18, 2018 2:00 PM MDT
    0

  • 1393
    If you accept that for the purpose of atonement/forgiveness of sins God can ad did accept something other than blood sacrifice then why all the fuss?
      May 18, 2018 5:53 PM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    Your insistence that sense God on a specific situation that included unique disobedient acts required something other than blood and a provision for the poor that Jesus sacrifice wasn't necessary nor any animal sacrifices which was commanded for many types of sins. 

    Go read your distortions on May 12 -14 where you imply that Christians doctrine is not supported by the Bible and you imply that since there are two examples of exceptions to the rule, that there is no rule and you make your regular taunts that Jesus didn't teach something specifically the way you want it worded. Your refusal to accept that Christians accept that Jesus said:
    (Matthew 26:28) for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.


      May 18, 2018 11:35 PM MDT
    0

  • 1393
    The argument that Jesus had to be the blood sacrifice because without blood sacrifice God cannot forgive sins is not valid. The two verses I quoted from the Bible prove that God can and did forgive without a blood sacrifice. 
      May 19, 2018 10:47 AM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    For your arguments sake, lets say that no bloodless sacrifices were offered for everyone for every kind of sin as well as inherited sin. (Which I am pretty sure you know that the Bible does not say that bloodless sacrifices were offered for everyone for every kind of sin.) Were the two exceptions good enough to cover offering and sacrifice for now on?
    How often do you offer articles of gold, ankle chains, bracelets, signet rings, earrings, and other jewelry?
    How often do you offer fine flower?

    See if this is any help:
    (Matthew 26:28) for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.
    (Hebrews 10:1-10) For since the Law has a shadow of the good things to come, but not the very substance of the things, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered year after year, make those who approach perfect. 2 Otherwise, would not the sacrifices have stopped being offered, because those rendering sacred service once cleansed would have no consciousness of sins anymore? 3 On the contrary, these sacrifices are a reminder of sins year after year, 4 for it is not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take sins away. 5 So when he comes into the world, he says: “‘Sacrifice and offering you did not want, but you prepared a body for me. 6 You did not approve of whole burnt offerings and sin offerings.’ 7 Then I said: ‘Look! I have come (in the scroll it is written about me) to do your will, O God.’” 8 After first saying: “You did not want nor did you approve of sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sin offerings”—sacrifices that are offered according to the Law— 9 then he says: “Look! I have come to do your will.” He does away with what is first in order to establish what is second. 10 By this “will” we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.
    (Romans 5:12) That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.
    (Psalm 49:7-9) None of them can ever redeem a brother Or give to God a ransom for him,  8 (The ransom price for their life is so precious That it is always beyond their reach);  9 That he should live forever and not see the pit.
    (Ecclesiastes 7:20) For there is no righteous man on earth who always does good and never sins.
    (Ecclesiastes 7:20) For there is no righteous man on earth who always does good and never sins.
    (Romans 6:23) For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.
    (John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
    (John 3:36) The one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.


    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2000200?q=%22Why+Mankind+Needs+a+Helper%22&p=par
    Why a Helper Is Needed
    Jesus came to the earth “to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” (Matthew 20:28) A ransom is the price paid to buy back, or to bring about the release of, someone or something. The verb form of the Hebrew word rendered “ransom” conveys the idea of covering, or atoning, for sins. (Psalm 78:38) The Greek word, such as that found at Matthew 20:28, was used particularly to refer to the price paid to ransom prisoners of war or to release slaves. To satisfy the demands of justice, one thing is given in exchange for another of corresponding value.
    Mankind came into slavery because of the first man’s rebellion against God. As shown in Genesis chapter 3, that perfect man—Adam—chose to pursue a course of disobedience to Jehovah God. By doing so, he sold himself and his yet unborn descendants into slavery to sin and death. For himself and all his offspring, Adam thus forfeited the gift of perfect human life.—Romans 5:12, 18, 19; 7:14.
    In ancient Israel, God arranged for animal sacrifices to atone for, or cover, the sins of the people. (Leviticus 1:4; 4:20, 35) In effect, the life of the sacrificial animal was given in place of that of the sinner. (Leviticus 17:11) Consequently, “the day of atonement” could also be spoken of as the “day of the ransoms.”—Leviticus 23:26-28.
    Since animals are inferior to man, however, it was “not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take sins away [completely].” (Hebrews 10:1-4) For a sacrifice to have sufficient value to atone for, or remove, sins permanently, it would have to be equal in value to what Adam forfeited. The scales of justice required a perfect man (Jesus Christ) to counterbalance what another perfect man (Adam) had lost. Only a perfect human life could pay the ransom price to redeem Adam’s offspring from the enslavement into which their first father had sold them. A ‘soul for a soul’ would meet the demands of true justice.—Exodus 21:23-25.
    When Adam sinned and was sentenced to death, his as yet unborn offspring were still in his loins and therefore died with him. The perfect man Jesus, “the last Adam,” willingly did not produce a family. (1 Corinthians 15:45) He had unborn offspring in his loins when he died as a perfect human sacrifice. Therefore, it might be said that the potential human race within his loins died with him. Jesus took Adam’s sinful, dying family as his own. He gave up the right to have a family of his own. By sacrificing his perfect human life, Jesus repurchased all mankind descended from Adam so that they could become His family, making Him their “Eternal Father.”—Isaiah 9:6, 7.
    Jesus’ ransom sacrifice opened the way for obedient mankind to receive God’s mercy and obtain everlasting life. Consequently, the apostle Paul wrote: “The wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23) We cannot help but praise Jehovah for the love and compassion associated with the ransom, provided at tremendous cost to himself and his dearly beloved Son. (John 3:16) And Jesus surely proved to be “a helper with the Father” when he was resurrected to heavenly life and presented the value of his ransom sacrifice to God in the heavens. (Hebrews 9:11, 12, 24; 1 Peter 3:18) But how is Jesus Christ now proving to be our helper in heaven?
      May 19, 2018 12:57 PM MDT
    0

  • 1393
    A rule has to be broken only once for it to be open to exceptions. The sun must always rise from the east has no exception, it must be so, because that rule has never even once been broken, to the best of our knowledge.

    I'm afraid I'll have to repeat again, I'm not into mountains of scripture. I'd look with interest if you can quote a verse that gets straight to the point.
      May 19, 2018 1:46 PM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    Better to quote me rather than paraphrase what I have said.

    Why do you refuse to acknowledge that for many scenarios, the Law required a blood sacrifice?
    These scriptures will be hard to swallow for you but anyway:
    (Exodus 29:38-42) “This is what you will offer on the altar: two one-year-old rams each day, continually. 39 Offer the one young ram in the morning and the other ram at twilight. 40 A tenth part of an eʹphah measure of fine flour mixed with a fourth of a hin of beaten oil, and a drink offering of a fourth of a hin of wine, will go for the first young ram. 41 You will offer the second young ram at twilight, along with the same grain and drink offerings as in the morning. You will render it as a pleasing aroma, an offering made by fire to Jehovah. 42 It is to be a regular burnt offering throughout your generations at the entrance of the tent of meeting before Jehovah, where I will present myself to you to speak to you there.
    (Leviticus 6:8-13) Jehovah continued to speak to Moses, saying: 9 “Command Aaron and his sons and say, ‘This is the law of the burnt offering: The burnt offering will remain on the hearth on the altar all night long until the morning, and the fire will be kept burning on the altar. 10 The priest will clothe himself with his official dress of linen, and he will put the linen shorts on over his flesh. Then he will remove the ashes of the burnt offering that the fire had consumed on the altar and place them beside the altar. 11 Then he will take off his garments and put on other garments and take the ashes to a clean place outside the camp. 12 The fire will be kept burning on the altar. It must not go out. The priest must burn wood on it each morning and arrange the burnt offering over it, and he will make the fat of the communion sacrifices smoke over it. 13 Fire will be kept constantly burning on the altar. It must not go out.
    (Numbers 28:3-8) “And say to them, ‘This is the offering made by fire that you will present to Jehovah: two sound year-old male lambs a day as a burnt offering regularly. 4 The one male lamb you will offer in the morning, and the other male lamb you will offer at twilight, 5 together with a tenth of an eʹphah of fine flour mixed with a fourth of a hin of beaten oil as a grain offering. 6 It is a regular burnt offering, which was established at Mount Siʹnai as a pleasing aroma, an offering made by fire to Jehovah, 7 along with its drink offering, a fourth of a hin for each male lamb. Pour out the alcoholic drink in the holy place as a drink offering to Jehovah. 8 And you will offer the other male lamb at twilight. With the same grain offering as that made in the morning and with its same drink offering, you will present it as an offering made by fire as a pleasing aroma to Jehovah.
    (Numbers 28:9, 10) “‘However, on the Sabbath day, the offering should be two sound year-old male lambs and two tenths of an eʹphah measure of fine flour mixed with oil as a grain offering, together with its drink offering. 10 This is the burnt offering for the Sabbath, along with the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.

    (Numbers 28:16-19) “‘In the first month, on the 14th day of the month, will be Jehovah’s Passover. 17 And on the 15th day of this month, there will be a festival. Unleavened bread will be eaten for seven days. 18 On the first day there will be a holy convention. You must not do any hard work. 19 And you will present as a burnt offering made by fire to Jehovah two young bulls, one ram, and seven male lambs each a year old. You should offer sound animals.
    (Numbers 28:24) You will offer these in the same manner each day for seven days as food, an offering made by fire as a pleasing aroma to Jehovah. It should be offered along with the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.
    (Leviticus 16:3) “This is what Aaron should bring when he comes into the holy place: a young bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering.
    (Leviticus 16:5) “He should take from the assembly of the Israelites two young male goats for a sin offering and one ram for a burnt offering.

    (Numbers 29:7-11) “‘And on the tenth of this seventh month, you should hold a holy convention, and you must afflict yourselves. You must not do any work. 8 And you will present as a burnt offering to Jehovah, as a pleasing aroma, one young bull, one ram, and seven male lambs each a year old, all of them sound. 9 And as their grain offering of fine flour mixed with oil, three tenth measures for the bull, two tenth measures for the one ram, 10 a tenth measure respectively for each male lamb of the seven male lambs, 11 as well as one young goat as a sin offering, aside from the sin offering of atonement and the regular burnt offering and its grain offering, together with their drink offerings.
    (Leviticus 23:16-18) You will count off 50 days until the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then you should present a new grain offering to Jehovah. 17 You should bring from your dwelling places two loaves as a wave offering. These should be made of two tenths of an eʹphah of fine flour. They should be baked with leaven, as first ripe fruits to Jehovah. 18 And you should present along with the loaves seven sound male lambs, each a year old, and one young bull and two rams. They will serve as a burnt offering to Jehovah along with the corresponding grain offering and drink offerings, as an offering made by fire, of a pleasing aroma to Jehovah.
    (Numbers 28:26-31) “‘On the day of the first ripe fruits, when you present a new grain offering to Jehovah, you should hold a holy convention in your feast of weeks. You must not do any hard work. 27 You will present as a burnt offering for a pleasing aroma to Jehovah two young bulls, one ram, and seven male lambs each a year old, 28 and as their grain offering of fine flour mixed with oil, three tenth measures for each bull, two tenth measures for the one ram, 29 a tenth measure respectively for each male lamb of the seven male lambs, 30 as well as one young goat to make atonement for you. 31 You will offer them in addition to the regular burnt offering and its grain offering. They should be sound animals, along with their drink offerings.
    (Numbers 29:12-39) “‘And on the 15th day of the seventh month, you should hold a holy convention. You must not do any hard work, and you must celebrate a festival to Jehovah seven days. 13 And you will present as a burnt offering, an offering made by fire as a pleasing aroma to Jehovah, 13 young bulls, 2 rams, and 14 male lambs each a year old, all of them sound. 14 And as their grain offering of fine flour mixed with oil, three tenth measures for each bull of the 13 bulls, two tenth measures for each ram of the 2 rams, 15 and a tenth measure for each male lamb of the 14 male lambs, 16 as well as one young goat as a sin offering, aside from the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering. 17 “‘And on the second day, 12 young bulls, 2 rams, and 14 male lambs each a year old, all of them sound,

    Those and over 100 more times are animals and their blood sacrificed for atonement. Most situations required blood to atone for sins.


    Your refusal to look past your nose and see the scriptures and circumstances of sacrifices reveals your insincerity. 
    Sense you refuse to read posted relevant scriptures, perhaps you will read a summary and if you choose to read a verse, you can click the link and click the verse in question.


    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003298?q=%22offerings%22&p=par

    OFFERINGS
    From early times men have presented offerings to God. In the first recorded instance, Adam’s oldest son Cain presented some fruits of the ground, and Adam’s younger son Abel, the firstlings of his flock. Evidently the attitudes and motives of the two brothers were different, for God approved Abel’s offering but looked with disfavor on Cain’s. (Later, the Law covenant provided for both animal and grain offerings.) Abel must have had faith in God’s promise of liberation through the promised Seed and likely realized that blood would have to be shed, someone would have to be ‘bruised in the heel,’ so that mankind might be uplifted to the perfection that Adam and Eve had lost. (Ge 3:15) Acknowledging himself as a sinner, he was led by faith to present an offering requiring the shedding of blood, thereby accurately foreshadowing the real sacrifice for sins, Jesus Christ.—Ge 4:1-4; Heb 11:4.
    In Patriarchal Society. The family head Noah, on coming out of the ark, offered a thanksgiving sacrifice to Jehovah that was “restful” (soothing, tranquilizing), after which Jehovah made the “rainbow” covenant with Noah and his offspring. (Ge 8:18-22; 9:8-16) We read later of the faithful patriarchs’ presenting offerings to Jehovah. (Ge 31:54; 46:1) Job, as family head, acted as priest for his family, sacrificing burnt offerings to God in their behalf. (Job 1:5) The most notable and significant of ancient sacrifices was Abraham’s attempt to offer up Isaac, at Jehovah’s direction. Jehovah, after observing Abraham’s faith and obedience, kindly provided a ram as substitute. This act of Abraham foreshadowed Jehovah’s offering of his own only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ.—Ge 22:1-14; Heb 11:17-19.
    Under the Law. The sacrifices commanded under the Law covenant all pointed forward to Jesus Christ and his sacrifice or to benefits that flow from that sacrifice. (Heb 8:3-5; 9:9; 10:5-10) As Jesus Christ was a perfect man, so all animal sacrifices were to be sound, unblemished specimens. (Le 1:3, 10; 3:1) Both the Israelite and the alien resident who worshiped Jehovah were included in presenting the various offerings.—Nu 15:26, 29.
    Burnt offerings. Burnt offerings were presented in their entirety to God; no part of the animal being retained by the worshiper. (Compare Jg 11:30, 31, 39, 40.) They constituted an appeal to Jehovah to accept, or to signify acceptance of, the sin offering that sometimes accompanied them. As a “burnt offering” Jesus Christ gave himself wholly, fully.
    Occasions for burnt offerings, and their features:
    (1) Regular times offered: Every morning and evening (Ex 29:38-42; Le 6:8-13; Nu 28:3-8); every Sabbath day (Nu 28:9, 10); first day of month (Nu 10:10); Passover and seven days of Festival of Unfermented Cakes (Le 23:6-8; Nu 28:16-19, 24); Day of Atonement (Le 16:3, 5, 29, 30; Nu 29:7-11); Pentecost (Le 23:16-18; Nu 28:26-31); each day of Festival of Booths.—Nu 29:12-39.
    (2) Other occasions: At consecration of priesthood (Le 8:18-21; see INSTALLATION); at installation of Levites (Nu 8:6, 11, 12); in connection with making covenants (Ex 24:5; see COVENANT); with communion offerings as well as certain guilt and sin offerings (Le 5:6, 7, 10; 16:3, 5); in performing vows (Nu 15:3, 8); in connection with purifications (Le 12:6-8; 14:2, 30, 31; 15:13-15, 30).
    (3) Animals offered and procedure: Bull, ram, male goat, turtledove, or young pigeon. (Le 1:3, 5, 10, 14) If it was an animal, the offerer laid his hand on the animal’s head (acknowledging the offering as his offering, and for him, in his behalf). (Le 1:4) The animal was slaughtered, the blood was sprinkled round about upon the altar of burnt offering (Le 1:5, 11), the animal was skinned and cut up into its parts, its intestines (no offal was burned on altar) and shanks were washed, the head and other body parts were all put on altar (the officiating priest received the skin; Le 7:8). (Le 1:6-9, 12, 13) If it was a bird, the crop and feathers were removed, and the head and body were burned on the altar. (Le 1:14-17)
    Communion offerings (or peace offerings). Communion offerings acceptable to Jehovah denoted peace with him. The worshiper and his household partook (in the courtyard of the tabernacle; according to tradition, booths were set up around the inside of the curtain surrounding the courtyard; in the temple, dining rooms were provided). The officiating priest received a portion, and the priests on duty, another portion. Jehovah, in effect, received the pleasing smoke of the burning fat. The blood, representing the life, was given to God as his. Therefore the priests, the worshipers, and Jehovah were as if together at the meal, signifying peaceful relationships. The person partaking while in a state of uncleanness (any of the uncleannesses mentioned in the Law) or who ate the flesh after it had been kept beyond the prescribed time (in the warm climate it would begin to putrefy) was to be cut off from his people. He defiled or desecrated the meal, because of either being unclean himself or eating that which was foul before Jehovah God, showing disrespect for sacred things.—Le 7:16-21; 19:5-8.
    The Lord’s Evening Meal (Memorial or Last Supper) is a communion meal. (1Co 10:16) Those in “the new covenant by virtue of [Jesus’] blood” share with one another in faith, partaking of the emblems representing Jesus’ body and blood. They share also with Jehovah as Author of the arrangement. These are seeking Jehovah’s approval and are at peace not only with one another but also with Jehovah through Jesus Christ. In line with the requirement of cleanness for sharers in a communion meal, Paul warns that the Christian should examine himself before the Memorial meal. To treat the occasion or the emblems of wine and unleavened bread lightly or with contempt would be desecration of sacred things, meriting adverse judgment.—1Co 11:25, 27-29; see LORD’S EVENING MEAL.
    In the thanksgiving offering, which was a communion offering praising God for his provisions and loving-kindnesses, flesh and both leavened and unleavened bread were eaten. The worshiper therefore celebrated the occasion using what might be termed “daily food.” (However, no leavened bread was at any time put upon the altar as being offered to God.) And, in this expression of thanks and praise to God, the flesh had to be enjoyed that day, not the next. (In other communion offerings, the flesh could be eaten the second day.) (Le 7:11-15) This brings to mind the prayer Jesus Christ taught his followers: “Give us today our bread for this day.”—Mt 6:11.
    Occasions for communion offerings, and their features:
    (1) Occasions: Making covenants (Ex 24:5); celebrating festal seasons and commencement of months (Nu 10:10; Ex 12:2-14; Le 23:15-19; Nu 29:39), and other occasions.
    (2) Purposes: To gain approval of God; entreaty or supplication to God in times of misfortune. (Le 19:5; Jg 20:26; 21:4; 1Sa 13:9; 2Sa 24:25)
    (3) Animals used, and procedure: Male or female cattle, sheep, goats (no birds, since they were not deemed sufficient to constitute a sacrificial meal). (Le 3:1, 6, 12) The offerer laid his hand on the animal’s head; the animal was slaughtered; the priest sprinkled its blood round about upon the altar of burnt offering (Le 3:2, 8, 13); the fat (including the fat tail of the sheep) was put upon the altar of burnt offering (Le 3:3-5, 9); the breast went to the priests, the right leg to the officiating priest (Ex 29:26, 28; Le 7:28-36).
    (4) Types: Thanksgiving or praise; vow (see Nu 6:13, 14, 17); voluntary.
    Sin offerings. These were all for unintentional sin, committed because of weakness of the imperfect flesh, not “with uplifted hand,” that is, not openly, proudly, purposely. (Nu 15:30, 31, ftn) Various animal sacrifices, from bull to pigeon, were used, according to the position and circumstances of the one(s) whose sin was being atoned for. It is to be noted that those involved in the sins dealt with in Leviticus chapter 4 were persons who had done “one of the things that Jehovah commands should not be done” and so had become guilty. (Le 4:2, 13, 22, 27) For Atonement Day sin offerings, see ATONEMENT DAY.
    Occasions requiring sin offerings, and their features:
    (1) For sin of the high priest bringing guilt upon the people (Le 4:3): The high priest brought a bull and laid his hand on the bull’s head; the bull was slaughtered; its blood was taken into the Holy Place and sprinkled before the curtain; some of the blood was smeared on the horns of the altar of incense, the rest being poured out at the base of the altar of burnt offering; the fat (as in communion offerings) was burned on the altar of burnt offering (Le 4:4-10); and the carcass (including the skin) was burned in a clean place outside the city, where altar ashes were put. (Le 4:11, 12)
    (2) For sin of the entire assembly (some sin made by the assembly, of which the leaders were not aware until later) (Le 4:13): The congregation brought a bull; the older men laid their hands on the bull’s head; one slaughtered it; the remainder of the procedure was the same as for a sin of the high priest. (Le 4:14-21)
    A sin of the high priest committed in his official position and capacity as representative of the entire nation before Jehovah brought guilt upon the entire assembly. This might be an error such as a mistake in judgment, in application of the Law, or in dealing with a question of national importance. For this, and for the sin of the entire assembly, the most valuable of sacrifices, namely, a bull, was required.—Le 4:3, 13-15.
    With sin offerings for individuals, the blood was taken no farther than the altar. However, in cases of sin of the high priest and of the entire assembly, the blood was also taken into the Holy Place, the first compartment of the sanctuary, and was sprinkled before the curtain, on the other side of which Jehovah ‘resided,’ as represented by a miraculous light above the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy. (Only in the sin offerings regularly made on Atonement Day was blood taken into the Most Holy, the second compartment; Le 16.) No priest could eat any portion of offerings from which blood was taken into the Holy Place.—Le 6:30.
    (3) Sin of a chieftain: The procedure was similar, except a male goat was used, and blood was not taken into the Holy Place. The blood was put on the horns of the altar of burnt offering; the rest was poured out at its base; the fat was made to smoke on the altar (Le 4:22-26); the priests evidently received a portion to eat, as in other sin offerings (Le 6:24-26, 29); vessels in which meat was boiled had to be scoured (or broken, if earthenware), so that none of the “most holy thing” would be desecrated, which would happen if any of the sacrifice clung to the vessel and the vessel was later used for ordinary purposes. (Le 6:27, 28)
    (4) Sin of an individual Israelite: A female kid of the goats or a female lamb was used; the procedure was the same as for the sin of a chieftain. (Le 4:27-35)
    In the following, the sins differ from the foregoing in that the persons involved committed an error and did “not do all [God’s] commandments,” hence a sin of omission.—Nu 15:22.
    (5) For the entire assembly, a kid of the goats was used (Nu 15:22-26); for an individual, a female goat in its first year. (Nu 15:27-29)
    In cases where priests were to eat part of the sin offering, it appears that, in partaking, they were considered to be ‘answering for the error’ of those making the sin offering “so as to make atonement for them before Jehovah,” by virtue of their holy office.—Le 10:16-18; 9:3, 15.
    Guilt offerings. Guilt offerings were also offerings because of sin, for guilt of any sort involves sin. They were for special sins by which a person had contracted guilt, and they differed slightly from other sin offerings in that they appear to have been to satisfy or restore a right. Either a right of Jehovah or a right of his holy nation had been violated. The guilt offering was to satisfy Jehovah on the right that had been violated, or to restore or recover certain covenant rights for the repentant wrongdoer and to get relief from the penalty for his sin.—Compare Isa 53:10.
    In the cases covered in Leviticus 5:1-6, 17-19, the individuals had sinned unwittingly, thoughtlessly, or carelessly, and when the matter was brought to their attention, they desired to right the matter. On the other hand, the sins dealt with at Leviticus 6:1-7 were not unwitting or careless sins but, nevertheless, were sins due to fleshly weaknesses and desires, not deliberate, high-handed, and purposely in rebellion against God. The person had come to be stricken in conscience, so repented voluntarily, confessing his sin, and after making restoration, sought mercy and forgiveness.—Mt 5:23, 24.
    These laws highlight the fact that, while the Law was strict for the deliberate, unrepentant sinner, there was room for consideration of motives, circumstances, and attitudes, so that mercy could be extended under the Law, even as is the case in the Christian congregation. (Compare Le 6:1-7; Ex 21:29-31; Nu 35:22-25; 2Co 2:5-11; 7:8-12; 1Ti 1:2-16.) But note that none of these wrongs could be done with impunity; compensation had to be made to the individual harmed, and a guilt offering was to be made to Jehovah. The guilt offerings were, with a few variations, handled in the same way as the sin offerings, the priests getting a portion to eat.—Le 7:1, 5-7.
    Occasions requiring guilt offerings, and their features:
    (1) A witness to a matter who failed to testify or report after hearing public adjuration; one who had unwittingly become unclean by reason of a dead body or another unclean person; one who rashly or thoughtlessly made an oath to do or not to do something (Le 5:1-4): He had to make confession concerning the way in which he had sinned. (Le 5:5) The guilt offerings varied according to financial circumstances. (Le 5:6-10) If it was a grain offering, no oil or frankincense was included because it was a sin offering and was a required grain offering, not a voluntary one; a voluntary grain offering was a joyful offering of one in good standing with God. (Le 5:11-13)
    (2) One who sinned unintentionally against holy things of Jehovah (for example, one who unwittingly appropriated grain set aside as tithe to the sanctuary, and used it for himself or his household [for a common use, profaning the sanctified thing]) (Le 5:15a; compare Le 22:14-16): Compensation plus one fifth was to be given to the sanctuary. (Le 5:16) A ram was presented as a guilt offering. (Le 5:15)
    (3) A person who unwittingly did something (probably through negligence) that Jehovah commanded not to be done: A ram “according to the estimated value” was to be offered. (Le 5:17-19)
    (4) A person who deceived his associate by taking valuables committed to his care, robbery, defrauding, keeping something found and lying about it (Le 6:2, 3; compare Ex 22:7-13, and note that this does not include testifying falsely against one’s fellowman, as at De 5:20): First, confession of the wrong was to be made. Then he must make full compensation, plus one fifth, to the injured person. (Le 6:4, 5; Nu 5:6, 7) If the wronged person had died, the nearest male relative got the compensation; if there was no near relative, the priest received it. (Nu 5:8) Then he was to offer a ram for his guilt offering.
    Grain offerings. Grain offerings were made along with communion offerings, burnt offerings, and sin offerings, and also as firstfruits; at other times they were made independently. (Ex 29:40-42; Le 23:10-13, 15-18; Nu 15:8, 9, 22-24; 28:9, 10, 20, 26-28; chap 29) These were in recognition of God’s bounty in supplying blessings and prosperity. They were often accompanied by oil and frankincense. Grain offerings could be in the form of fine flour, roasted grain, or ring-shaped cakes or wafers that were baked, griddle cooked, or from the deep-fat kettle. Some of the grain offering was put on the altar of burnt offering, some was eaten by the priests, and in communion offerings the worshiper partook. (Le 6:14-23; 7:11-13; Nu 18:8-11) None of the grain offerings presented on the altar could contain leaven or “honey” (apparently referring to the syrup of figs or juice of fruits) that might ferment.—Le 2:1-16.
    Drink offerings. Drink offerings were presented along with most of the other offerings, especially after the Israelites had settled in the Promised Land. (Nu 15:2, 5, 8-10) This consisted of wine (“intoxicating liquor”) and was poured out on the altar. (Nu 28:7, 14; compare Ex 30:9; Nu 15:10.) The apostle Paul wrote to the Christians at Philippi: “If I am being poured out like a drink offering upon the sacrifice and public service to which faith has led you, I am glad.” Here he used the figure of a drink offering, expressing his willingness to expend himself in behalf of fellow Christians. (Php 2:17) Shortly before his death, he wrote to Timothy: “I am already being poured out like a drink offering, and the due time for my releasing is imminent.”—2Ti 4:6.
    Wave offerings. In the wave offerings the priest evidently put his hands under the hands of the worshiper, who was holding the sacrifice to be presented, and waved them to and fro; or the thing offered was waved by the priest himself. (Le 23:11a) It seems that Moses, as mediator of the Law covenant, did this for Aaron and his sons when consecrating them to the priesthood. (Le 8:28, 29) This action represented a presenting of the sacrificial things to Jehovah. Certain wave offerings went to the priests as their portion.—Ex 29:27.
    The presentation of a sheaf (or omer measure) of the firstfruits of the barley harvest on Nisan 16 was a wave offering carried out by the high priest. It was on this date in the year 33 C.E. that Jesus Christ was resurrected, “the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.” (1Co 15:20; Le 23:11b; Joh 20:1) On the day of Pentecost two leavened loaves of the firstfruits of wheat were waved. (Le 23:15-17) This is the day that Jesus, as High Priest in the heavens, was able to present to Jehovah the first of his spiritual brothers of the Christian congregation, taken from among sinful mankind and anointed by the pouring out of the holy spirit.—Ac 2:1-4, 32, 33; compare Jas 1:18.
    Sacred portions (heave offerings). The Hebrew word teru·mahʹ is sometimes translated “sacred portion” when referring to the part of the sacrifice that was lifted up, or heaved, off the sacrifice as the portion belonging to the priests. (Ex 29:27, 28; Le 7:14, 32; 10:14, 15) The word is also frequently rendered “contribution,” when referring to the things given to the sanctuary, which, with the exception of that which was sacrificed on the altar, also went to the priests for their sustenance.—Nu 18:8-13, 19, 24, 26-29; 31:29; De 12:6, 11.



    (Matthew 26:28) for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.
      May 19, 2018 7:22 PM MDT
    0

  • 1393
    1. "Why do you refuse to acknowledge that for many scenarios, the Law required a blood sacrifice?" 

    a] you're again ascribing statements/positions to me which I have not made/taken.

    b] "many scenarios" is not = all scenarios without exception.  "many scenarios" means there are exceptions. Once one exception is made it becomes legitimate to ask why another one was not made.

    2. Posting a huge mountain of scripture is a huge mountain of evidence that you could not find a single verse that gets straight to the point.
     
     
      May 20, 2018 4:25 AM MDT
    0

  • 2657
    I gave you one verse in one of our threads, Mt 26:28, and you questioned the timing of it in relation to other scriptures. I give other scriptures and you question why other scriptures.
    Your insincerity reminds me of this:
    (Matthew 11:16-19) “With whom will I compare this generation? It is like young children sitting in the marketplaces who call out to their playmates, 17 saying: ‘We played the flute for you, but you did not dance; we wailed, but you did not beat yourselves in grief.’ 18 Likewise, John came neither eating nor drinking, but people say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of man did come eating and drinking, but people say, ‘Look! A man who is a glutton and is given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ All the same, wisdom is proved righteous by its works.”


    Just trying to educate you on some of the laws about sacrifice. Your refusal to read the scriptures or consider the context is very telling about your sincerity. 

    (Psalm 22:15) My strength has dried up like a piece of pottery; My tongue sticks to my gums; You are bringing me down to the dust of death.
    (Isaiah 53:8) Because of restraint and judgment he was taken away; And who will concern himself with the details of his generation? For he was cut off from the land of the living; Because of the transgression of my people he received the stroke.
    (Isaiah 53:12) For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many, And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty, Because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people, And he interceded for the transgressors.
    (Daniel 9:26) “And after the 62 weeks, Mes·siʹah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. “And the people of a leader who is coming will destroy the city and the holy place. And its end will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.
    (1 Peter 2:24) He himself bore our sins in his own body on the stake, so that we might die to sins and live to righteousness. And “by his wounds you were healed.”
    (1 Corinthians 15:3) For among the first things I handed on to you was what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures;
    (1 Peter 3:18) For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.

    (Matthew 26:28) for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.



    You obviously don't accept the Bible and I do. Tired of beating a dead horse, you ready to talk about your Quran now?


    EDIT: 
    Lets start here:

    Sura 8:
    12 [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip." 

    Sura 2: 
    (189) And fight in the Way of Allâh[] those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)]. (190) And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah[] is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-Al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah),[] unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. (191) But if they cease, then Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (192) And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers.) 

    Sura 3:
    (139) If a wound (and killing) has touched you, be sure a similar wound (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), We give to men by turns, that Allâh may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allâh likes not the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong¬doers). (140) And that Allâh may test (or purify) the believers (from sins) and destroy the disbelievers (141) Do you think that you will enter Paradise before Allâh tests those of you who fought (in His Cause) and (also) tests those who are As-Sâbirun (the patient)?

    Sura 9:
    (3) Except those of the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor have supported anyone against you. So fulfill their treaty to them for the end of their term. Surely Allâh loves Al- Mattaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2). (4) Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 

    (28) Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allâh, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allâh and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islâm) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah[] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 

    (35)….That is the right religion, so wrong not yourselves therein, and fight against the Mushrikûn (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh) collectively[], as they fight against you collectively. But know that Allâh is with those who are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious - see V.2:2). (36)The postponing (of a Sacred Month) is indeed an addition to disbelief: thereby the disbelievers are led astray, for they make it lawful one year and forbid it another year in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by Allâh, and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their deeds is made fair-seeming pleasing to them. And Allâh guides not the people, who disbelieve. (37) O you who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth in the Cause of Allâh (i.e. Jihâd) you cling heavily to the earth? Are you pleased with the life of this world rather than the Hereafter? But little is the enjoyment of the life of this world as compared to the Hereafter.[] (38) If you march not forth, He will punish you with a painful torment and will replace you by another people, and you cannot harm Him at all, and Allâh is Able to do all things 

    (42) May Allâh forgive you (O Muhammad SAW). Why did you grant them leave (for remaining behind, you should have persisted as regards your order to them to proceed on Jihâd), until those who told the truth were seen by you in a clear light, and you had known the liars?




    Can you give one verse that will identify the context as to which of these versions of the Quran is correct?

    Sahih International: [Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."

    Pickthall: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

    Yusuf Ali: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

    Shakir: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

    Muhammad Sarwar: Your Lord inspired the angels saying, "I am with you. Encourage the believers. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers and you will strike their heads and limbs;

    Mohsin Khan: (Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."

    Arberry: When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, 'I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers' hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!'



    This post was edited by texasescimo at May 20, 2018 5:17 AM MDT
      May 20, 2018 5:05 AM MDT
    0