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Is it fair to have higher expectations of people who are professed Christians?

There's a song that I learned in church camp many years ago. The chorus goes "And they'll know we are Christians by our love, by our love. And they'll know we are Christians by our love". 


~

Posted - April 22, 2018

Responses


  • 2657
    You are the one talking about exactly 34 offences, find for yourself more than or less than 34 or 1,000 more or less.

    There seems to be an unending amount of fluff with excommunication of your Church:

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

    (Skip down about 80% of the way down to pick up here:)

    Excommunications specially reserved to the pope

    These are twelve in number and are imposed upon the following persons:

    ...

    Excommunications simply reserved to the pope

    Before enumerating those it intends to retain, the Constitution "Apostolicæ Sedis" pronounces a first excommunication of this kind against "those who presume to absolve, without the requisite faculties and under any pretext whatsoever, from excommunications that are specially reserved". This article is directed against those who dare to absolve in bad faith or rashly; a well-founded doubt, however, and even gross ignorance may be pleaded as excuses. Then follow seventeen excommunications simply reserved, declared against the following persons:

    (1) "Those who either publicly or privately teach or defend propositions condemned by the Holy See under pain of excommunication latæ sententiæ likewise those who teach or maintain as lawful the practice of asking the penitent the name of his or her accomplice, a practice condemned by Benedict XIV in his Constitutions 'Suprema' (7 July, 1745), 'Ubi primum' (2 July, 1746), and 'Ad eradicandam' (28 Sept., 1746)." This article contains two distinct parts. In the first it is not question of all propositions condemned by popes or councils in terms less condemnatory (e.g. rash, offensive, etc.) than the specific stigma heretical (to defend heretical propositions being heresy itself and already declared a chief cause of excommunication, see above), but only those which the popes have specifically forbidden to be maintained under pain of excommunication latæ sententiæ. These propositions are:


    ...

    Excommunications reserved to the bishop (ordinary)

    These are three in number and affect the following persons:


    ...

    Excommunications that are not reserved (Nemini Reservatæ)

    These are four in number and are pronounced against the following persons:


    ...


    ...

    Excommunications pronounced by the Council of Trent

    These are eight in number, the first being simply reserved to the pope and the other seven non-reserved:


    ...

    Excommunications pronounced or renewed since the constitution "Apostolicæ Sedis"

    These are four in number, the first two being specially reserved to the pope, the third to the ordinary; the fourth is not reserved.



    ...



      April 28, 2018 4:33 PM MDT
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  • 537
    No, I don't think that any religion offers instant perfection to those who adopt it, or if it does then it is fraudulent. Religion should be like a really good pair of climbing shoes that allow someone to climb an apparently unassailable mountain - not a glass elevator that takes them effortlessly to the top.

    I would expect a professed Christian to have moral aspirations and be striving to become better, but I would not stigmatise them if they have lapses. This post was edited by Reverend Muhammadovsky at April 27, 2018 7:36 AM MDT
      April 25, 2018 12:00 PM MDT
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  • 10029
    Thank you for your reply. I agree that religion can be just that for many people. 


      April 25, 2018 9:06 PM MDT
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  • 13395
    Higher expectations in what way...? - honesty, open mindedness,  compassionate and knowledgeable about things in general,  reasonable and unbiased...

    Wouldn't a good Christian be all of these things? 
      April 25, 2018 10:45 PM MDT
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  • 7280
    Not necessarily.

    Becoming a Christian is a life-time project.  Depending on where you meet an individual Christian on his journey, you may run across him in a "hard hat" period of that project. 

    But come back later to see what he has built---you may be quite impressed.
      April 27, 2018 11:09 AM MDT
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  • 2657
    Unfortunately, the atrocities committed by the Catholic Church and other similar Churches throughout history, has led to many thinking the Bible supports such actions. Look at all of the counterfeit words your church has come up with. Trinity, purgatory, limbo, indulgences, mass, immortality of the soul, Hell Fire, Popes, Bishops, Church, etc. At least y'all don't burn people at the stake or put under house arrest anymore for translating the Bible or scientific discoveries. 

    (2 Peter 2:1-3) However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words. But their judgment, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping.
      April 27, 2018 2:55 PM MDT
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  • 492
    Oh tex, you and your atrocities committed by the Catholic Church. Go to bed and get over it. Jesus said accept it and welcome it. 
    Matthew 24:6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
    Drink some magnesium citrate and get over it when you wake up in the middle of the night.
      April 27, 2018 6:46 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    As a Catholic and sharer with the perpetrators, well spoken.

    (Matthew 23:27-31) “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. 29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you build the graves of the prophets and decorate the tombs of the righteous ones, 30 and you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have shared with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Therefore, you are testifying against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.


    Most Protestants believe Revelation 18 only applies to the Catholic Church. They are at least right in that it includes the catholic Church. Check your bloody history.
    (Revelation 181-24) ...4And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6 Repay her in the way she treated others, yes, pay her back double for the things she has done; in the cup she has mixed, mix a double portion for her. 7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For she keeps saying in her heart: ‘I sit as queen, and I am not a widow, and I will never see mourning.’ 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong. 9 “And the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality with her and lived with her in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her when they see the smoke from her burning.
    ...
    24 Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
      April 27, 2018 7:33 PM MDT
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  • 7280
    Just curious---what is it about what you are doing that you think actually serves that God that you have constructed for yourself?
      April 27, 2018 8:30 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    I didn't construct any God. I am quoting the scriptures that are from the true God hoping that someone will at least read a portion of God's word. I don't think arguing with you and antibiotic serves God in the true sense as the scriptures say to wipe the dust from my feet among other things with those that have no appreciation for spiritual things. As I've said before, I may be considered to be an extremist JW. None are encouraged to argue in person or on the internet. 

     I do often argue with nonbelievers like yourself about the Bible. I know that is wrong of me as well as the Bible condemns it. 

    (Matthew 10:14) Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.
    (Luke 9:5) And wherever people do not receive you, on going out of that city, shake the dust off your feet for a witness against them.”
    (2 Timothy 2:14-16) Keep reminding them of these things, instructing them before God not to fight about words, something of no usefulness at all because it harms those listening. 15 Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright. 16 But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness,
    (Colossians 4:5, 6) Go on walking in wisdom toward those on the outside, making the best use of your time. 6 Let your words always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should answer each person.
    (2 Timothy 4:2) Preach the word; be at it urgently in favorable times and difficult times; reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching.

    Now for you:
    Just curious---what is it about what you are doing that you think actually serves that God that you have constructed for yourself?


    EDIT: Another curiosity, do you disapprove of any of the murders by your Church in their murderous history?


    This post was edited by texasescimo at April 28, 2018 5:21 AM MDT
      April 28, 2018 4:09 AM MDT
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  • 7280
    There was a guy on another site who called himself **** the dragon.  And at no time did he ever come out of character.  He never came out of character.  He could discourse at length about how Dragon Elders had supplied truth to mankind and how they had perverted it---as well as his personal thoughts and feelings about living in a world of unappreciative men who failed to recognize the essential superiority and writings of the Dragon.

    We finally just stopped responding to his postings and trying to reason with him and he eventually did leave the site.  At the time, the owner required that we use our real names and I don't think ****the dragon was able to handle the cognitive dissonance that requirement caused him---apparently the need to use a human name really conflicted with his self image.

    At any rate, "With reasonable men I will reason, with humane men I will plead...," but for now, I bid you "goodnight."



    (William Lloyd Garrison had some interesting quotes.)
















    This post was edited by tom jackson at April 27, 2018 8:53 PM MDT
      April 27, 2018 8:49 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    Responding with that to the comment by antibiotic about the atrocities of your Catholic Church makes one thing that you are saying your Church is the Dragon. In most other threads you declare the Catholic Church to be righteous and the atrocities therein to be a mysterious part of God's plan for his Church. And you often declare yourself to be highly intelligent and reasonable. Quite disturbing. 
      April 28, 2018 4:25 AM MDT
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  • 7280
    Oh, I know I am disturbing to any JW---as well as a few other sects.---But the JW's are the only ones who come off as so desperate to convince me of the evils and ignorance of Catholicism---by definition an impossible task.--

    All of you fail to understand the role of the Church that God founded to continue to reveal things about Himself and His creation to mankind when it became appropriate in the "economy of God's salvation."---

    As it grows, good differs not only from evil, but also from other good.--The god you have claimed to discover is much less interesting and powerful that the one that I know exists.--

    As I have said before, if you ever find the "pearl of great price," everything I have said will make sense to you.
      May 6, 2018 8:07 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    I thought I responded to this but nothing here.

    You have to have a conscience, preferably a Bible trained conscience to recognize religious atrocities as evil.

     


    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm

     

     


    Church legislation on heresy
    ..
    ..
    This legislation remained in force and with even greater severity in the kingdom formed by the victorious barbarian invaders on the ruins of the Roman Empire in the West. The burning of heretics was first decreed in the eleventh century. The Synod of Verona (1184) imposed on bishops the duty to search out the heretics in their dioceses and to hand them over to the secular power. Other synods, and the Fourth Lateran Council (1215) under Pope Innocent III, repeated and enforced this decree, especially the Synod of Toulouse (1229), which established inquisitors in every parish (one priest and two laymen). Everyone was bound to denounce heretics, the names of the witnesses were kept secret; after 1243, when Innocent IV sanctioned the laws of Emperor Frederick II and of Louis IXagainst heretics,  torture was applied in trials; the guilty persons were delivered up to the civil authorities and actually burnt at the stake. Paul III (1542) established, and Sixtus V organized, the Roman Congregation of the Inquisition, or Holy Office, a regular court of justice for dealing with heresy and heretics (seeROMAN CONGREGATIONS). The Congregation of the Index, instituted by St. Pius V, has for its province the care of faith and morals in literature; it proceeds against printed matter very much as the Holy Office proceeds against persons (see INDEX OF PROHIBITED BOOKS). The present pope [1909], Pius X, has decreed the establishment in every diocese of a board of censors and of a vigilance committee whose functions are to find out and report on writings and persons tainted with the heresy of Modernism (Encyclical "Pascendi", 8 Sept., 1907). The present-day legislation against heresy has lost nothing of its ancient severity; but the penalties on heretics are now only of the spiritual order; all the punishments which require the intervention of the secular arm have fallen into abeyance. Even in countries where the cleavage between the spiritual and secular powers does not amount to hostility or complete severance, the death penalty, confiscation ofgoods, imprisonment, etc., are no longer inflicted on heretics. The spiritual penalties are of two kinds: latae and ferendae sententiae. The former are incurred by the mere fact of heresy, no judicial sentence being required; the latter are inflicted after trial by an ecclesiastical court, or by a bishop acting ex informata conscientia, that is, on his own certain knowledge, and dispensing with the usual procedure

     

     



    https://www.ccg.org/weblibs/study-papers/p185.html
     
    www.ccg.org
    Christian Churches of God. No. 185 . Socinianism, Arianism and Unitarianism (Edition 1.5 19961221-20150612) The term Socinianism has been applied quite indiscriminately over a large body of anti-Trinitarian doctrine.

    In 1192 bishop Otto of Toul ordered all Waldenses to be delivered up in chains to the episcopal tribunal. In 1194 Alphonso II of Aragon ordered their banishment from his dominion and forbade them shelter or food. The Council of Genoa (1197) affirmed these provisions and ordered death by burning against the Church. 

     

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06796a.htm  (3rd paragraph from the bottom)

     

    Gregory IX was very severe towards heretics, who in those times were universally looked upon as traitors and punished accordingly. Upon the request of King Louis IX of France, he sent Cardinal Romanus as legate to assist the king in his crusade against the Albigenses. At the synod which the papal legate convened at Toulouse in November, 1229, it was decreed that all heretics and their abettors should be delivered to the nobles and magistrates for their due punishment, which, in case of obstinacy, was usually death. When in 1224 Frederick II ordered that heretics in Lombardy should be burnt at the stake, Gregory IX, who was then papal legate for Lombardy, approved and published the imperial law. During his enforced absence from Rome (1228-1231) the heretics remained unmolested and became very numerous in the city. In February, 1231, therefore, the pope enacted a law for Rome that heretics condemned by an ecclesiastical court should be delivered to the secular power to receive their "due punishment". This "due punishment" was death by fire for the obstinate and imprisonment for life for the penitent. In pursuance of this law a number of Patarini were arrested in Rome in 1231, the obstinate were burned at the stake, the others were imprisoned in theBenedictine monasteries of Monte Cassino and Cava (Ryccardus de S. Germano, ad annum 1231, in Mon. Germ. SS., XIX, 363).It must not be thought, however, that Gregory IX dealt more severely with heretics than other rulers did. Death by fire was the common punishment for heretics and traitors in those times. Up to the time of Gregory IX, the duty of searching out heretics belonged to the bishops in their respective dioceses. The so-called Monastic Inquisition was established by Gregory IX, who in his Bulls of 13, 20, and 22 April, 1233, appointed the Dominicans as the official inquisitors for all dioceses of France (Ripoil and Bremond, "Bullarium Ordinia Fratrum Praedicatorum", Rome, 1729, I, 47).

     

     

     

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14761a.htm  (2nd paragraph from the bottom)

    With regard to the toleration of Christian heretics and schismatics the reader will do well to consult the article INQUISITION. No very systematic measures of repression seem to have come into practice before the twelfth century. The aggressive attitude adopted in the case of the Priscillianists (q.v.) and Donatists was owing less to the action of the bishops than to that of the emperor. On the other hand, it cannot be disputed that after the authority of the popes was firmly established, ecclesiastical campaigns were undertaken against the Cathari, the Waldenses, and Albigenses as well as later on against the followers of Wicklif andHus. Moreover isolated executions for heresy (burning at the stake being commonly employed for this purpose) were known before the twelfth century both in East and West; though at the same time the actual infliction of the punishment, then as after, must be regarded as an act of the civil power rather than that of any ecclesiastical tribunal. But though an Inquisition of heretical practices may be regarded as having been first formally set up, at any rate in embryo, about the second half of the thirteenth century no measures of extreme severity were in the beginning prescribed or generally adopted. The Fourth Council of Lateran in 1215 imposed as a penalty the deprivation of property and civil stakes. Convicted heretics even though repentant, were excluded from public offices and were compelled to wear a badge. If their retractation was insincere they were liable to be confined in a public prison. At the same time it must not be forgotten that all these medieval heresies, as such an historian as Gairdner has noticed (Lollardy, I, 46), struck at the foundations of social order. M. Guiraud's account of the extravagant teaching of the Cathari and Albigenses is conclusive upon the point. It cannot be doubted that the severities which then began to be exercised in the name of religion were prompted by no lust for blood. It seemed rather to orthodox churchmen that the Church was so menaced by these subversive doctrines that her very existence was at stake.

     

     

      https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04259b.htm

    (2nd paragraph from the bottom)

    ...From the beginning of the thirteenth century the German ecclesiastical authority, in union with the civil power, had proceeded vigorously against all heresies. The conflict in which Conrad had so large a share was waged according to the medieval views of public right and welfare. The first process in which he took part was that directedagainst Heinrich Minnike,Provost of Goslar. In 1224 after a trial that lasted two years, Minnike was declared guilty of heresy, delivered to the secular arm, and perished at the stake. In the following years Conrad preached with great vigour against the heretics and was warmly praised and encouraged to greater zeal by Gregory IX in a letter of 1227. The Archbishops of Trier and of Mainz both wrote to the pope in 1231 in praise of the extraordinary activity of Conrad and reported his triumphs over several heretical leaders. Thereupon Pope Gregory conferred on Conrad (11 October, 1231) the extensive authority of papal inquisitor, the first such officer appointed in Germany. At the same time the pope released Conrad from the obligation of following the ordinary canonical procedure (te a cognitionibus causarum habere volumus excusatum) and authorized him to proceed resolutely against heretics as he thought best, but with due observance of the papal decrees on the subject.

     

     

      https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06105c.htm

    The Medici

     

    Lorenzo was succeeded by his son, Piero, but he did not long retain popularity, especially after he had ceded the fortresses of Pietra Santa and Pontremoli to Charles VIII of France, who entered Italy with the avowed purpose of overthrowing the Aragonese dominion in Naples. ...

    .. The last had for chief the Dominican friar, Girolamo Savonarola of Ferrara, who hoped by their aid to restore in Florence piety and a Christian discipline of life, i.e. to establish in the city the Kingdom of Christ. In fact, Christ was publicly proclaimed Lord or Signore of Florence (Rex populi Florentini). (For the irreligious and rationalistic elements in the city at this period seeGUICCIARDINI and MACHIAVELLI). Savonarola's intemperate speeches were the occasion of his excommunication, and in 1498 he was publicly burned.The Arrabiatiwere then in power. In 1512 Cardinal Giovanni de' Medici purchased at a great price the support of the Spanish captain Cardona and sent him to Florence to demand the return of the Medici. Fearing worse evils the people consented, and Lorenzo II, son of Piero, was recalled as prince. Cardinal Giovanni, however, kept the reins of power in his own hands. As Leo X he sent thither Cardinal Giulio de' Medici (the natural son of Giuliano), afterwards Clement VII. The family had now reached the acme of its power and prestige. The sack of Rome (1527) and the misfortunes of Clement VII caused a third exile of the Medici. Ippolito andAlessandro, cousins of the pope, were driven out.

     

     

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02616a.htm

    History of the ancient Unitas Fratrum (1457-1722)

    The Bohemian Brethren are a link in a chain of sects beginning with Wyclif (1324-84) and coming down to the present day. The ideas of the Englishman found favour with Hus, and Bohemia proved a better soil for their growth than EnglandBoth Wyclif and Hus were moved by a sincere desire to reform the Church of their times; both failed and, without intending it, became the fathers of new heretical bodies — the Lollards and the Hussites. The former were persecuted out of existence in England by Catholic rulers;the latter prospered in Bohemia, thanks to royal and national support.The burning of John Hus at the stake for his stubborn adherence to the condemned doctrines of Wyclif (at Constance, 6 July, 1415) was considered an insult to the faith of the Bohemian nation, which, since its first conversion to Christianity, had never swerved from the truth. The University of Prague came boldly forward to vindicate the man and his doctrines; the party which hitherto had worked at reforming the Church from within now rejected the Church's authority and became the Hussite sect. Divisions at once arose amongst its members. Some completely set aside the authority of the Church and admitted no other rule than the Bible;others only demanded Communion under both kinds for the laity and free preaching of the Gospel, with some minor reforms. The former, who met for worship at "Mount Tabor", were called Taborites; the latter received the name of Calixtines, i.e., the party of the Chalice. As long as they had a common enemy to fight they fought together under the leadership of that extraordinary man, John Trocznowski, known as Zizka (the one-eyed), and for fully fifteen years proved more than a match for the imperial armies and papal crusaders sent to crush them. Peace was at length obtained, not by force of arms, but by skilful negotiations which resulted in the "Compactata of Basle" (30 November, 1433). The compact was chiefly due to the concessions made by the Calixtine party; it found little or no favour with the Taborites. The discontent led to a feud which terminated at the Battle of Lippau (30 May, 1434) with the death of Procopius, the Taborite leader, and the almost total extinction of this party. The small remnant, too insignificant to play a role in politics, withdrew into private life, devoting all their energies to religion. In 1457 one section formed itself into a separate body under the name of the "Brethren's Union" (Unitas Fratrum), which is now generally spoken of as the Bohemian Brethren. Their contemporaries coined for them several opprobrious designations, such as Jamnici (cave-dwellers) and Pivnicnici (beerhouse men), Bunzlau Brethren, Picards (corrupted toPickarts), etc.

      May 7, 2018 5:55 PM MDT
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  • 1326
    Though Christians should set the better example, in many instances it's not the case. The major armed conflicts in modern history began in professed christian countries.
      May 3, 2018 10:33 PM MDT
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  • 7280
    And Christ not too gently threw the money changers out of the temple....
      May 6, 2018 8:09 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    The ones in the major armed conflicts are not Jesus and there is a difference between 'major armed conflicts' and Jesus chasing out money changers out of His fathers house.
      May 7, 2018 8:40 AM MDT
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  • 7280
    Well feel free to explain why size matters regarding the principle of how we act toward others.
      May 7, 2018 10:35 AM MDT
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  • 2657
    Try to follow the content of the threads you comment on. The comment you replied to mentioned war-mongering religions, like yours, as causing major armed conflicts. Small armed conflicts are bad too regardless of who participates in the carnage. 

    Did you Pope use the actions of Jesus as a reason for burning people at the stake?
      May 7, 2018 6:00 PM MDT
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  • 1326
    No comparison between what the Lord jesus did at the temple and the war mongering nations. I won't say more since tex has explained much to you already.
      June 1, 2018 12:08 AM MDT
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  • 13251
    Personally, I have higher expectations of myself and my fellow members of the tribe, ie Jews. If you know anything about Judaism and its customs and practices, you know that living a meaningfully Jewish life - involving tefilah (prayer/spirituality), tzedakah (charity/caring for and giving to others in need), and t'shuvah (humility/repentance) - is perhaps more challenging than that of most other religions, especially in places without a lot of other Jews around. This is partly illustrated by more observant people and the time and effort they devote to upholding our rather stringent rules of kashrut (dietary laws) - did you know that some Jewish folks keep separate sets of dishes and utensils for serving dairy and meat meals? In the extreme, some even have separate sinks and dishwashers.

    One could argue that Christians have it relatively easy given their numbers in the population and resulting domination (not always in negative ways) of mass/popular culture and social standards.
      June 1, 2018 1:11 AM MDT
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  • 2657
    You puzzle me. Meaningful Jewish life with Prayer yet don't believe in God?

    https://answermug.com/forums/topic/57843/how-does-god-give-authority-to-certain-people/view/post_id/484850/page/1
    God cannot give authority. God was created by humans, and thus exists as a self-fulfilling prophecy only in the minds of those who choose to believe God exists.
       June 1, 2018 12:07 PM
      June 1, 2018 2:03 PM MDT
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  • 13251
    There's a difference that you seem unable or unwilling to grasp between not believing in God and not believing in the traditional, literal God conceptualized in the bible and places like churches, ie an old white man with a long flowing beard sitting in the heavens, exerting direct control over human lives and events. This is the God paradigm that was created by people. If you think of God in a more abstract sense, as in a combination of the forces and laws that govern nature and the human conscience that helps us know the difference between right and wrong (essentially SCIENCE and CONSCIENCE), you will better understand it.
      June 1, 2018 2:41 PM MDT
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  • 2657
    But you pray to this non-interested God and you go to what I assume is a Synagogue that teaches at least bits and pieces of the Hebrew scriptures that paint a concerned, loving, compassionate interested God that even revealed His name and purpose to the writers thereof? 
      June 3, 2018 5:13 AM MDT
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  • 13251
    Not sure it's a kind of active prayer, as in requesting or seeking something from a paternalistic higher power, so much as quiet meditation and reflection, at least for me. And the synagogue, which comprises our building and Park Slope Jewish Center, the congregation housed therein, is itself essentially an inanimate object and doesn't teach anything. We read from scripture, as well as scholarly interpretations thereof, but a lot of that is rather arcane detail about names, families, who lived and died when, and rules and procedures for the temple and how to clean and sacrifice animals. Also things like how people should wash and clothe themselves. In our services, we refer to God only as God, the Lord, and, of course, Adonai. We do not use male pronouns and references such as He, Him, or Father. This better suits us as an "egalitarian conservative" congregation in which men and women equally participate in ritual.

    As for learning, that's more of an organic process that comes from interactions among the members and others. Of course that includes our ritual leader, Rabbi Carie Carter, but it's not always a didactic process of her teaching the congregation from the pulpit. We have several other rabbis as members, plus other folks who are teachers, college professors, doctors, attorneys, writers, etc., and many of them and other members offer knowledge/teaching from time to time. We have a scholar-in-residence program, which this weekend featured a woman who is a writer and author and was born in Calcutta. She traces her Indian Jewish ancestry to 1820 and she presented a fascinating look at Jewish life, practice, and ritual in India.

    So, you see, Jewish teaching and learning is not a one-way street originating from some imaginary god and ancient, somewhat arcane scriptures. We see it as more of an organic, continuously changing and evolving process. It may be different from what happens in church, but it works for us.
      June 3, 2018 6:41 AM MDT
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