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Discussion » Questions » Paranormal » Can natural forces cause weird, mysterious events to happen?

Can natural forces cause weird, mysterious events to happen?

A guy (fellow atheist) related this event that happened recently -he was lying in bed late one  evening when he heard sound of shattering glass in his house. He got up to find out the cause and found a glass plate had come out of a closed cupboard door and smashed on the floor in the kitchen. No explanation how. No intruder,  his doors all locked up,  totally sure he never left the plate on the edge of his counter. Mystery. 

My own experiences -years ago i'd seen my doctor to get a form,  a statement that would qualify me for disability. I took the paper home and put it in the top drawer of a desk. Later to make the appointment to see my social worker with the document I opened the desk drawer: no paper. I searched the other drawers and around the room; it had totally disappeared.  I did find it some time -months later in one of the lower drawers. Mystery. 

Another time early this year I got my income tax slips in the mail I put put them on top my pile of papers in a chest of drawers. When time came to take the slips and have my income tax filed I took the slips from top of the pile and had someone do the paperwork for me. Then I got a letter from Revenue Canada saying they received tax slips from year 2016 instead of 2017 so I gotta fix it. How did my 2016 slips get to the top of the pile from being buried underneath somewhere. Anyway I found my 2017 slips at the bottom of the pile of papers and got things fixed up.
No idea how that could have happened.  Mystery mystery. 

Posted - December 2, 2018

Responses


  • 5391
    As I said, and your response readily confirms, you know precious little about Atheism, beyond what the vested interests of theist religions have been repeating since time immemorial. This is reinforced, as in your case, principally by the wall of self-appointed confirmation bias you call “truth”; faith, as fact.
    Faith is —by definition— conviction in the absence of fact.

    Our truths differ in that what we as Atheists seek is based on evidence, on consistent logic, not merely what relies upon faith and allegory and conjecture to accept, as you make clear that you do. 
    Present some evidence, I will eagerly examine it, weigh it against what facts might contradict it; this is how non-believers like myself determine truth. I await your proof. 
    Beyond your “feelings” and the voices in your head, I challenge that you have no real evidence, can present none, nor require any to validate the derivative mythology upon which you erect your worldview.
    To me, this willful abdication of critical faculties is sad, but it is your choice, and you are mistaken in that I don’t think enough of your position nor of your version of God to be annoyed about it.
    It only annoys me when such primitive thinking is imposed on children in school science classes.

    This is one primary difference between us in this matter.  This post was edited by Don Barzini at December 4, 2018 10:48 PM MST
      December 4, 2018 8:10 PM MST
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  • 46117
    I am not doing a back and forth about your beliefs versus mine.  Who cares anyway.

    I have nothing to prove but you seem to have.  


    First of all, sweetie pie, I WAS an atheist.  FOR DECADES.  I grew out of that.  I grew.  You did not.

    You are stuck.   Do not ever try and tell me what I know.    

    You are a pretender to the throne.  You are so vested in being so proud of that stupid label.

    No one is an atheist.  I hate to tell you.  It's impossible.  You deny your soul?  And you tell me I don't know what I am talking about.  I am talking to a deaf dumb and blind person.

    It's boring.  Sorry.  Catch up already.  
      December 4, 2018 8:19 PM MST
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  • 5391
    How unfortunate you are again unable to participate effectively in civil discourse.

    True, I don’t care what you believe, you’ve made no case for it anyway, and I find your juvenile exercise in condescension pitiable, but reflective of your usual M.O. 

    I did promise to address any rational point you might have about Atheism; I made the effort, though you have made no progress toward rationality. 
    Live in whatever way works well for you, it does me no ill. 
      December 4, 2018 9:03 PM MST
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  • 46117
    You pissed me off.  You don't come at me telling ME I hear voices in my head.

    How dismissive can you get?  First of all you did not bother to read the whole story and digest what I said.  After that?  You lost me.  I am not very good at taking crap from someone like you.  

    If you want to have a conversation about anything with me, learn how to converse.
      December 4, 2018 9:05 PM MST
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  • 5391
    That's too bad. Enough conversation has been spent on you already. To no avail. 

    We’ll just have to disagree: I hold that Gods are myths and you stand deceived, ...and I‘m not the one pissed off about it.


      December 4, 2018 9:26 PM MST
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  • 46117
    The only person you will agree with is yourself and those who agree with you.

    I can readily discuss your viewpoints and accept your take on life if you take the stick out of your butt and lower your nose about a foot.  It is too high in the air for me to even consider another take now.

    Maybe later when we can respect each other again.  If ever.
      December 4, 2018 9:30 PM MST
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  • 5391
    Tell yourself whatever you like, it is of no worry to me or anyone else.

    That said, you have adequately demonstrated what you are, there will be no illusions about it should there be any future discussions. 
      December 4, 2018 9:52 PM MST
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  • 46117
    I am someone who told you OFF.  That is what I am at present.

    You deserved it.  

    I adequately demonstrated what YOU are.  A pompous blowhard.
      December 4, 2018 10:00 PM MST
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  • .

    7268
    I was answering phones at a church office one day. Someone called and said they had a large tent, like the kind you hold a fairly large event under.  Wanted to know if we knew of anyone who had a need like that. I put the person on hold to answer another call.  Someone was calling to find out if we knew of anyone who had a large tent they could use, I forget what it was for.  I told him hold on a minute there is a caller on the other line who has one.  A large tent is not something that is a usual request.  
      December 3, 2018 9:11 AM MST
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  • 13395
    That is very interesting! 
      December 3, 2018 9:13 AM MST
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  • 13251
    That is what we call a coincidence. Nothing weird or cosmic about it.
      December 4, 2018 7:05 PM MST
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  • 22853
    I wish I had an answer sitting on the top of my head but I can't think of anything at the moment.
    I'll keep thinking.
    And I hope to come back to your question to more closely read all the answers.
    :)


    To work I go - - -


    This post was edited by WelbyQuentin at December 4, 2018 7:05 PM MST
      December 3, 2018 9:39 AM MST
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  • 22891
    anything is possible, ive never had it happen
      December 3, 2018 10:21 AM MST
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  • 10449
    Weird and mysterious things happen around here all the time.  However, I have cats.  99% of the time the "phenomena" was caused by one (or both) of the cats (the other 1% I still blame on the cats anyway).

    I do however, have one phenomenon that is definitely NOT cat induced.  I have a refrigerator that will, occasions, talk and/or play music - literally.  No, it's not supposed to do that.  The sounds are like what you get off a crystal radio.  The best I can figure is that it's somehow picking up wifi signals (at random times).  Since the outside casing of the fridge vibrates when this happens, I assume it's acting like some sort of speaker.  Its did this ever since I got it. It's a bit spooky to wake up in the middle of the night to hear strange, "wispy" voices talking in your kitchen.   I can be cooking dinner when suddenly the refrigerator starts playing music (rock, country, spanish, and more).  These "episodes" generally last about a minute (each) and occur very randomly; however, many happen at night (probably because that's when its quiet enough to really hear them).  Sometimes  several "episodes" will happen back to back or even simultaneously.  I can yell at the cats to knock it off, but how does one tell a refrigerator, shut up, I'm trying to sleep?
      December 3, 2018 11:49 AM MST
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  • 13395
    That's pretty interesting. 
      December 3, 2018 12:49 PM MST
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  • 5391
    Sure. Natural forces influence our world constantly, pervasively, and in countless ways, many of which remain mysterious to us. Some only await further investigation. 

    “Weird” is simply something outside of our personal perception of ordinary. A subjective description.
    A mystery is merely a condition that currently defies our meager ability to understand it.
    It follows that mysteries can seem inherently weird.

    Neither is proof of the supernatural, nor of divinity.

      December 3, 2018 4:56 PM MST
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  • 46117
    Barzini, you haven't studied a thing except how to be an atheist. 

    I have studied the masters in the East.  Instead of just scoffing, you need to read.  You need to learn this threat to your ego.  You need to learn what that little voice that you accuse me of listening to, is TELLING YOU.

    That constant chatter in your brain that you cannot stop.  You need to learn to shut it off. And see what unfolds when you do.

    And do not speak.  You have nothing to say.  Nothing.  I have been an atheist. You have not seen God.  

    So, I think maybe you need to stop telling yourself stories about what I am or what I think or what I know.

    I have been where you are and I am at least as intelligent as you, honey.  

    That brain of yours does not impress me at all.  It is flawed and your ego and your self-importance on a subject in which you know very very little is even less impressive.  Except to those other athiests you cling so desperately to.  I bet you are in at least one club where you all pat yourselves on the backs for being so above it all.  Pathetic.
      December 4, 2018 8:38 PM MST
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  • 5391
    You are entitled to your opinion. That, after all, is all it is.
    I‘m not here to impress you or anyone else. It is amusing that you think you know anything about me. You don’t. 

    That you rant and ramble indignantly is clear to me I’ve struck a nerve. 
    That is satisfaction enough. 


      December 4, 2018 9:41 PM MST
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  • 46117
    I don't know anything about you except the way you behave in your answers.  Very off-putting.  

    YOU HAVE STRUCK A NERVE.  SO what?  What does that prove except you are annoying and arrogant?  

    That is the nerve you struck.  Annoying.  And stuck in time and a place I have visited for a long time and got bored and moved on.  I know that much.  You like the story you tell yourself about you.  That is obvious.  And if I didn't strike a nerve, you wouldn't still be rambling back at me.  

    WOULD YOU? 
      December 4, 2018 9:53 PM MST
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  • 5391
    It stands to reason that you think it should matter that you are annoyed. No, it really doesn’t. Ho-hum. 

    Bored and moved on, yes, finally something we agree on.

    I admit a weakness for low-hanging fruit when I’m bored, as now. My thanks to you for providing some.
    Moving on. 
      December 4, 2018 10:16 PM MST
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  • 7919
    Years ago when I was working in a dental office, I sat next to a large floor-to-ceiling window which overlooked the parking lot. I was going through the list of patients to call to confirm their appointments for the next day and had not left my desk since I arrived. I got to one name on the list and realized they were having a crown seated, but couldn't recall if their crown had come in from the lab or not, so I got up to check. I was maybe 15 feet away from my desk when I heard a crash behind me. A car had crashed driven through the window and smashed my desk. I was dumbfounded. If I had gotten up 30 seconds later or if the car had come through a minute later, I would have been crushed. This was back when Toyota had cars on the road that would accelerate when the brake was pressed. We all thought the elderly woman just shouldn't have been driving anymore because the news about the vehicles had not broken yet and she swore up and down she never accelerated. The accident wouldn't have killed me, but it probably would have mangled my pelvis or broken my spine. In any case, I felt certain there had to be a reason I was spared, but I haven't come up with one yet. 

    Back when I was still married, a friend of mine was all into manifestation and he swore up and down that if I concentrated hard enough on making something happen, it would happen. He insisted that I try it while on the phone with him. I jokingly told him I was manifesting a tall man with dark hair bringing me coffee and money. To humor my friend, I concentrated on it for a moment before moving the conversation along. It's worth noting that, by this time, my husband and I were not getting along at all and barely spoke to one another, so I was jokingly manifesting myself a new man. The next morning when I woke up, there was a cup of Starbucks and grocery money on the counter; left there for me by my husband... a tall man with dark hair. I was more than a little freaked out. I think I even took a photo of the coffee and money and sent it to my friend. lol 

    Things happen. I don't consider them to be miracles or anything. Things are only miracles if you see them that way. To give an example, I was really struggling the Christmas after my ex left. I was trying to create some normalcy for my kids, but they'd gone from having me home with them all the time to me working all the time and we were super broke. We celebrate the holidays out of tradition, but I wasn't really feeling the holiday spirit that year. The kids insisted we put up a tree though, and so we did. It was a Charlie Brown tree (sparse and sad), but decorated with the pizzazz only a three-year-old and six-year-old can bring to the table, meaning the bottom third of it had three boxes of decorations on it and the rest had none. Anyway, one of my former co-workers thought she was being helpful. She belonged to the LDS church and sent some of the sisters out to meet me. I really felt bad for them because I'm also an atheist and one of the women in the group was particularly young and sweet. She believed in God and her church with every fiber of her being. And, in truth, I was a little jealous of that. I was honest, but gentle with her about my stance on things. She launched into a story about miracles and how they're all around us and how, if we see those miracles, we have to believe in God. I was like, "Yeah. No. Miracles aren't a thing. They're logical brains trying to make sense out of things that don't make sense. Nothing more." And, she replied, "Well, you're an atheist. And, here we are, sitting in your kitchen talking about God. That's pretty unusual. But, let's take this another step. You're having a tough time and you're not feeling festive and yet, somehow, despite being an atheist and struggling, you've got a Christmas tree up." I was like, "Lady, a mom catering to her small children is no miracle." And, it's not. But, to her, it was. To her, it was a sign of hope. It was a sign that God was at work in my home. 

    There's some beauty in that for sure. To be able to see things we don't understand and believe there's a higher power at work. To think that there's a reason for everything. Some all-powerful all-knowing entity orchestrating our lives. But, it's just us, looking for answers. Chances are, the real answers are totally logical. The house shifted or a rodent passed by and the glass fell. You misplaced the papers or you mailed them in and forgot. Oral infections do heal on their own. It's not unheard of, but rare. Oftentimes, people think they've got an abscess, but it's really just a popcorn shell or something stuck too. Not as much fun to think that, but there's usually a logical answer or just plain coincidence at work.
      December 3, 2018 11:19 PM MST
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  • 13395
    Maybe sometimes our brain cannot percieve certain elements of reality.
      December 4, 2018 6:53 AM MST
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  • 4631
    Sure!
    In the times before the understanding of how and why the natural world works in the way it does, almost every natural event was considered weird or mysterious:
    what causes pregnancy or disease,
    why animals and people were sometimes born with mutations,
    why someone was struck dead by lightning,
    why earthquakes and hurricanes affected some but not others in seemingly random ways,
    why the sun is sometimes eclipsed by the moon,
    why a needle in a cork in a dish of water will always point north,
    why fireweed sometimes spontaneously ignites...

    When we don't know why something happens, we humans tend to invent reasons, and then some of us tend to come to believe them with or without proof. We can also reinforce our beliefs with the placebo effect.
    To this day, when there are coincidences (which may often be linked by a chain of mundane causal connections even though we can't see them)
    some of us tend to see it as proof of supernatural mental powers or some divine agency.
      December 4, 2018 6:10 PM MST
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  • 13395
    If you could unravel the chaos of chaos theory then you could understand how the most unexpected kind of  coincidences are bound to happen eventually. Maybe someday your choice of numbers will win the lottery jackpot. 

    "There is order in chaos"
      December 4, 2018 6:50 PM MST
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  • 4631
    Chaos theory isn't actually chaotic.
    "Chaos" is a jargon word in mathematics; it does not mean the same thing as it means in ordinary English.
    Chaos is a poetic name to describe a group of specific algorithms of complex mathematics which enable us to predict the probability of a possible random change occurring within a specific window of time and place.

    The bifurcation events that switch the trajectory of an object from one vortex to another in fractal mathematics are truly random.
    But they are still not chaotic (in the ordinary sense): the possible changes are absolutely limited in scope. 
    They are the reason why the mechanics of the lottery can be trusted to be unbiased. Even then, because it is happening in real life and not just mathematical projections, the apparatus for lotteries is just as prone to wear and eventual bias as roulette wheels - so they have to be re-made.

    Some weather systems are prone to random swings - but even there, thanks to chaos mathematics, we can now estimate the probability of a possible change.

    Most "chaos" isn't chaos at all, just a complexity too great for the human mind to comprehend. This post was edited by inky at December 4, 2018 10:46 PM MST
      December 4, 2018 7:13 PM MST
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