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Discussion » Questions » Current Events and News » NY refuses to fund college money for all Gold Star families but approves $27M for illegals' college tuition. How can they defend this?

NY refuses to fund college money for all Gold Star families but approves $27M for illegals' college tuition. How can they defend this?

NY removes college money for Gold Star families but approve $27M for illegals college tuition. How can they defend this? (original wording)
(I reworded this to fix an error)

Posted - April 12

Responses


  • 5642
    Run for the hills!  Central Park will soon be a giant campground for illegals. 
      April 12, 2019 9:15 PM MDT
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  • That's the beauty and glory of the socialistic mindset. These parasites aren't throwing their own money down a rat hole, it's always somebody else's cash. The gloves are off my friend. These fools don't care if you know that they are working intensely and fervently to undermine the nation. As long as they receive the seal of approval and legitimacy, they will grow bolder, louder and more hysterical.
      April 12, 2019 9:33 PM MDT
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  • 23797

      (illegals illegals)



      April 12, 2019 9:35 PM MDT
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  • 9278
    That is a great sound bite, but not true.  Once again, you didn't research far enough to get the entire story.  The true story set forth by Assemblyman John McDonald.  I have posted the important part and you can go to the link at the bottom for the entire story.

    "The most glaring piece of misinformation is that the committee sought to deny Gold Star families free college tuition. New York State already provides free college tuition and money for expenses for Gold Star families and families of military personnel that are not Gold Star through the Military Enhanced Recognition, Incentive and Tribute (MERIT) Scholarship. The current MERIT scholarship is a program in which any person who applies and meets the eligibility requirements will receive a financial award. The scholarship covers both tuition and non-tuition costs (books, supplies, transportation, and housing) for a maximum annual award of $24,250. The current law only applies to those spouses, children, and financial dependents of New York State military personnel who 1) have died, become severely or permanently disabled, or has been classified as missing in action in a combat zone; or (2) has died or become severely or permanently disabled as a result of injury or illness suffered or incurred during military training in preparation for duty in a combat zone."

    ***

    "
    The substance of the Hawley bill (text available here https://nyassembly.gov/leg/?default_fld=&leg_video=&bn=A02991&term=2019&Memo=Y&Text=Y) would expand eligibility for this program that already exists. The bill would give scholarships to the spouses, children, and financial dependents of New York State military personnel who have died while performing official military duties (not necessarily within a combat zone), a meritorious goal, but a major expansion to the current law with significant fiscal implications.

    It is very important to note that the definition of a Gold Star Family is a very specific designation. Gold Star Family Members are the immediate family members of fallen service members who died while serving in conflict."

    In other words, they are not taking anyrhing away from those who are Gold Star families, they chose not to vote on a bill that would expand the program to military personnel who did not die in combat zones.

    https://blog.timesunion.com/johnmcdonald/funding-college-for-gold-star-and-military-families-clarifying-misinformation/5596/

      April 12, 2019 9:51 PM MDT
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  • 14510

    If approved by the full Legislature and Gov. Andrew Cuomo, the measure would have provided free SUNY or CUNY tuition, room and board to any surviving dependent family members of New York veterans who were died while carrying out official duties. This matches the definition given by the US army's official website:

     

    These flags/banners were first flown by families during World War I. The flag included a blue star for every immediate family member serving in the armed forces of the United States, during any period of war or hostilities in which the armed forces of the United States were engaged. If that loved one died, the blue star was replaced by a gold star.

     

    https://www.army.mil/goldstar/

    So NY has its own modified the meaning of Gold Star for their Merit scholarship. And that is fine they can do that with their money. 

    But that does not change the fact other survivors who would have been affected by this bill are indeed Gold Star family members.

    So yes, NY did just deny college tuition to Gold Star family members.

    As far as economics:


    Fiscal implications of the bill are yet to be determined, according to the New York legislature’s website, but Hawley said an assemblywoman estimated it would cost up to $200,000. However, the assemblyman reasoned the cost was irrelevant.

    They approved $27Million for free tuition for the illegal students.

    So NO it was not about how much it cost.

     

      April 13, 2019 5:54 AM MDT
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  • 9278
    I'm not arguing who is and who is not a Gold Star family.  I'm saying that the military definition is the family of a person who died in a war zone or in hostilities.  The new bill would expand that definition to include anyone who was active military anywhere at all whether at war or not.  You quoted and underlined the paragraph saying that yourself and it says died during war or hostilities.  NY is not taking that money away from those families, but it does not want to expand the  military definition to include any military personnel anywhere at all.  You're missing, once again, the nuance differentiating between a soldier who dies in a war or conflict and a soldier who dies at any time at all.
      April 13, 2019 9:16 AM MDT
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  • 14510
    I just gave you the military definition of Gold Star family. I took it off of the US Army's official website. 

    These flags/banners were first flown by families during World War I. The flag included a blue star for every immediate family member serving in the armed forces of the United States, during any period of war or hostilities in which the armed forces of the United States were engaged. If that loved one died, the blue star was replaced by a gold star.

     https://www.army.mil/goldstar/


    Where does it say died during combat?    Just when in the last 80 yrs has the US not been at war or involved in hostilities? 

    Now as I said NY can make stipulations to getting their tax money.  But it does not change the Gold Star status of these survivors. 
      April 13, 2019 10:28 AM MDT
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  • 9278
    during any period of war or hostilities in which the armed forces of the United States were engaged.

    You know, I can write the words (and you yourself have written the same words) but I can't make you understand them.  War or hostilities - think Afghanistan - not while stationed in Hawaii, sitting on a beach and eaten by a shark.  
      April 13, 2019 10:46 AM MDT
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  • 14510
    PERIOD OF WAR.....means serving during that period of time.   It does not say during combat or died on the battlefield. 

    Served during the period of war and died while serving. (Not while sitting on the beach).    Now the soldier was stationed in HI and was at the beach to work as a military function. Yes, that would qualify as long as the US was at war or in hostiles. 
      April 13, 2019 11:53 AM MDT
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  • 9278
    Only Congress has the power to declare war.  The United States has not been in any war declared by Congress since the end of WWII.

    Edited to add:

    The blue star indicated that the family had an immediate member in the armed forces serving where there was a US engagement.  If the soldier died, the star was changed to a gold star.  If the gold star didn't mean that the person died in battle or in combat or as a result of battle or combat, there would have been no need to change it from a blue star.  The meaning of the gold star is that the person died as a result of combat in a war/conflict zone in which the US was embroiled.   This post was edited by SpunkySenior at April 14, 2019 12:44 PM MDT
      April 13, 2019 2:01 PM MDT
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  • 9278
    The blue star indicated that the family had an immediate member in the armed forces serving where there was a US engagement.  If the soldier died, the star was changed to a gold star.  If the gold star didn't mean that the person died in battle or in combat or as a result of battle or combat, there would have been no need to change it from a blue star.  The meaning of the gold star is that the person died as a result of combat in a war/conflict zone in which the US was embroiled.   
      April 13, 2019 2:12 PM MDT
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  • 5554
    While I have not done any exhaustive research on this issue, it seems that rather than removing college money for Gold Star families, NY simply did not provide any additional funding for the Gold Star families.

    In which case, the question is based on an error.


      April 13, 2019 12:11 PM MDT
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  • 14510
    Corrrect, they did not expand it to cover all Gold Star family.  It remained with the stipulation that the military member must have been killed in combat.  Perhaps I did word my question incorrectly...
      April 13, 2019 1:38 PM MDT
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  • 5554
    So what does a good moderator do when that happens?
      April 13, 2019 2:05 PM MDT
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  • 14510
    See above. 
      April 13, 2019 2:29 PM MDT
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  • 9278
    Tom, you are correct.  NYS did not remove college money for Gold Star families.  They did not expand the definition of Gold Star families to include those who did not die in war or hostilities.  That is a big difference from claiming that NYS removed funding from Gold Star families and gave it to illegal immigrants.  That is how falsehoods spread and become alternative facts or, in the famous words of some posters' idol who can do no wrong in their opinion, FAKE NEWS.
      April 13, 2019 1:50 PM MDT
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  • 14510
    I did fix my wording. It was incorrect.
      April 13, 2019 2:28 PM MDT
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  • 9278
    Here's another definition of Gold Star families:

    "Gold Star families are immediate relatives of U.S. Armed Forces members who died in battle or in support of certain military activities. These relatives can be parents, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters or other loved ones.

    The term Gold Star was first used in World War I, when families flew flags with stars representing each loved one fighting in the conflict.

    Gold Star traditions

    The flags had a blue star for each immediate family member serving in the U.S. military during any period of war or hostilities. If a loved one was killed while serving, the blue star was replaced by a gold star."

    https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/what-is-a-gold-star-american-family-and-how-are-they-important-for-the-military/3446219.html

      April 13, 2019 2:30 PM MDT
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  • 5578
    I was going to comment that I didn't know what Gold Star families meant.. but I see there is an explanation above. 
      April 13, 2019 2:13 AM MDT
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  • 1974
    I think SpunkySenior has clarified what the proposed changes actually mean.

    Here I make a guess at why New York would choose to fund free education for the children of illegal migrants.
    If illegal migrants come from non-English speaking countries, their children can often be at a disadvantage because English may not be spoken at home. Free tuition means they have a chance to get a good education, hence get good jobs, hence become good citizens and tax payers.
    Not giving them a good education means condemning them to the high probability of poverty traps, social disadvantage, and possibly living in ghettos where social problems can multiply.
    I know there are studies done in places like Australia, Peru and Denmark which prove this to be the case - but right now I don't have the energy to go chasing up the references.
      April 14, 2019 12:47 AM MDT
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