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Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » When you eliminate environmental protection rules you invite pollution of the air, the ground, the water. That is a given right?

When you eliminate environmental protection rules you invite pollution of the air, the ground, the water. That is a given right?

What happens when you pull out of nuclear arms agreements with hostile foreign countries and test missiles that were previously BANNED? Aren't you inviting resumption of a nuclear arms race with the inevitable result of war? Why else eliminate the brakes unless you want the bomb-loaded car going down the hill to accelerate and keep going until?

Posted - August 21, 2019

Responses


  • 3684

    Rosie, you are asking two separate questions there!

    Environmental protection laws are established for very good reasons, and even the People's Republic of China has recognised the problems its massive industrial developments have caused, and is now working hard to put that right.

    There is a point many people may not realise. Forget trade agreements or wars, tariffs, etc. 

    A lot of nations and blocs like the EU have long imposed certain minimum standards equally on both internally made and imported goods, to ensure at least equivalence to the importing nation's. These are mainly for safety and quality (often linked). In the EU, the outwards sign is the "CE" mark on a product, and sometimes a leaflet listing the relevant detail standards. The US equivalent is the ANSI (American National Standards Institute) but whatever happens, the exported goods must meet the importers' legal specifications. 

    More recently though, standards have started to spread possibly to employment-protection and certainly to environmental responsibility demonstrated by the producers. Some are national or bloc in origin, but most reflect agreements by the International Standards Organisation, to which almost every country in the world is either a full or "reader" member. The USA and EU members are all full ISO members.


    The ISO instituted a management-control system called ISO900x (x is a digit from 0 upwards), some decades now - based on a British military equipment-guarantee scheme called DEF-STAN[number]. More recently ISO created an environmental responsibility system called ISO1400x. Such schemes rely on certified companies maintaining full traceability and recording of the detail technical systems involved; and are costly and difficult to obtain and maintain.

    I do not know if ISO has any similar scheme for standards of employee rights and welfare, but this too may be a growing factor in international trade: humanity apart, reputable firms do not want the bad publicity of association with "sweat-shops", for example.
       

    National law may not insist on ISO or EU accreditation, but many customers including governmental organisations, do. Although a manufacturer can obtain them anyway, if its home country lacks the legal and administrative support it will be much more difficult to do so, because accreditation needs independent assessors as well as the laws as a guide. Particularly, ISO14000 requires such actions as proving continual monitoring fuel and electricity consumption, and ensuring waste materials are disposed of properly via known, legal and reputable services. 

    So if a manufacturer cannot show keeping to the relevant standards, it will deter potential customers. If its own country has no legal and administrative support for companies needing that accreditation, it will find it very difficult to gain accreditation in the first place.

    Therefore, by dismantling laws protecting the environment, employee welfare etc., the USA could damage its own ability to export goods. And no-one will accept it bleating about importers being "protectionist", if obeying laws or standards ultimately from the same ISO to which both parties are full members!  

    ++++

    On your other question, both the USA and Russian Federation seem to be embarking on a new arms race based on developing a new breed of cruise (steered rather than ballistic) missiles that may or may not carry nuclear war-heads, but are too fast for existing defence systems to track and shoot down.

    It's all a very frightening prospect... 

    +++
    [Edited to correct and shorten slightly.]

    This post was edited by Durdle at August 21, 2019 4:56 AM MDT
      August 21, 2019 4:17 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    I guess you haven't noticed Durdle. I almost always ask COMPOUND questions. That is why I have my own space. I was driving the folks who classify questions crazy. They didn't know where to put me since my QUESTION usually had multiple DIVERSE parts. The chump has appointed EPA HATERS to run the place. He has made national forests unprotected so I'm sure at some point you will see strip malls parking structures and condominiums therein. The FDA is worthless.  He has given manufacturing firms open license to dump their chemically laden poison wherever the he** they want. So what other conclusion can be drawn from that? Crapped up food crapped up drugs crapped up cosmetics crapped up air crapped up water crapped up veggies grown in crapped up soil. Who cares? Let it all come on down and hang out. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

    He has pulled us out of strategic agreements vis a vis nuclear arms. He is so dam* proud of having done that. He has alienated our allies and let our enemies have their way with him. His adoring worshippers clearly can't think ahead to the results destroying all protections will bring. They are supporting things that will or could eventually kill their own children and they do not give a sh** about any of it!

    So mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Thank you for your reply. If you want simple I'm sure there are other question askers who prefer that mode of communication. I'm not being sarcastic. I am a "developed" taste. Not many people's cuppa tea. I'm stuck with being me so there is nothing I can do about it. SIGH. This post was edited by RosieG at August 21, 2019 5:07 AM MDT
      August 21, 2019 5:02 AM MDT
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  • 3684
    Hello Rosie - I'd not left but was away!

    I had realised you ask compound questions!

    President Trump has a reputation for being anti-science , rather ironically given his use of the Internet, but I think it would be more accurate to say he has a very poor understanding of science coupled with disdain for anything not supporting his political views and motives. 
      September 3, 2019 2:41 PM MDT
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  • 113301
    How do you that m'dear? State very simply without anything hostile or antagonistic about chump? You state the facts as you see them unburdened by any partisan leanings. I can't do that. You say he has a very "poor" understanding of science. My take on that is that he is stoopid dumb and enjoys his ignorance bigly and his defiance and obdurate stupidity grows with every rally. The way I see him is expressed a lot more "colorfully" than your way. How do you do it? Maybe it's because I'm too close to the object of ridicule evil and your view is from a different place? He thinks being stupid dumb about climate change makes him more adorable to his base. We celebrate stupid now. We used to celebrate its opposite. See? Another question is coming. Thank you for your reply m'dear. You will let me in on your secret won't you? Please and thank you!
      September 4, 2019 4:14 AM MDT
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  • 3684
    I agree with the premise of your question - remove the rules and you invite environmental damage - but I am a foreigner and do not know the entire background to the USA's internal affairs, so I try to be at least fair to your country's president and certainly its political system.

    That does not mean I agree with Trump. Nor do I think he is at all competent but I do recognise he has or had a lot of electoral support. Whether he still has that support I do not know; but I think many of those supporters have or had the same ignorance of, and disdain for, science and the environment as he has. Especially in regions impoverished by losing their main industries. If someone promises to restore them, it would be only natural if former employees put their own and family's present needs first and support him, come what may.   

    In any political or social controversy, irrespective of location and my views, I try to step back from the immediate and "obvious", and certainly the emotional, and understand the underlying matters and motives. I do not always succeed, and am probably wrong as often as I am right in what I think is happening, but I prefer to know what leads people to act or decide as they do. Some are extremely able and far-sighted; others are mistaken, negligent, dogmatic or indeed merely foolish; but most genuinely believe they are doing the right thing.

    I try to take as one of my models, an occasional, short series of programmes titled Why Did We Do That?, on BBC Radio Four. Each edition took a policy made by the UK national or local Governments in the fairly recent past, which later at least partially failed or proved badly mistaken, and asks why the policy was set in the first place. It invites individuals who were senior politicians and civil-servants involved at the time but now retired; and it is illuminating to hear them talk candidly about the reasons and motives for the given action, and why it later failed. No-one is a prophet, and almost all cases were based on what was genuinely thought best at the time. I have listened to former politicians I opposed totally when they were Governmental Ministers - they propose policies but it is for Parliament to reject or adopt those - and they are very different animals now, because they can look back at what they did and explain it in an even-handed way.  Now, whether Donald Trump could be expected to take part constructively in a similar programme in 20 or 30 years' time, and well after he has left politics, is another matter - but that's in the nature of the individual.  

    As for Donald Trump himself, I do not know his background other than as a property-speculator; but I have the impression and may be wrong, that it's possible to be elected President of the USA with little or no former governmental or diplomatic experience. It is far better than people come into politics from employment of almost any sort in the real world, rather than be a "career politician"; but in most democracies and probably many dictatorships, you do need a proven governmental record before being elected for the Top Job.

    The big difference between the USA and UK is that the UK is not Presidential. We Britons do not elect our Prime or any Minister to that role. We elect him or her as an ordinary constituency Member-of-Parliament, and the Party chooses its leader from its MPs. He or she therefore becomes Prime Minister or (for the largest Opposition party) the corresponding Leader of the Opposition. However, such selection depends almost entirely on past Governmental and Parliamentary experience, flavoured by Party leanings. So even if the PM turns out to be inept, in theory at least he or she had a sufficiently strong political CV to have been selected originally to that role.

    [Edited to remove an accidental striking-through - I may have accidentally keyed some odd control combination!]

    [No - still there. If it appears to you, please ignore the striking-through. It is entirely unintentional and I cannot remove it!]
    This post was edited by Durdle at September 4, 2019 6:04 AM MDT
      September 4, 2019 6:01 AM MDT
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  • 32700
    Russia was already violating the agreement. We withdrew and showed them we have just as much power as they do. 
      August 21, 2019 4:54 AM MDT
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