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Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » Did Jesus really exist? What do both modern and ancient authorities say? See link below to see.

Did Jesus really exist? What do both modern and ancient authorities say? See link below to see.

https://https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no5-2016-october/did-jesus-really-exist//en/publications/magazines/awake-no5-2016-october/did-jesus-really-exist/
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no5-2016-october/did-jesus-really-exist/

Responses


  • 36
    I believe he did.
      October 5, 2016 5:56 AM MDT
    2

  • 534
    Hello Urban Spaceman. I believe that he did as well, considering the biblical and historical evidence that he did. Did you go to the link?
    https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/awake-no5-2016-october/did-jesus-really-exist/
     
      October 12, 2016 3:36 AM MDT
    1

  • 2965
    Yes. He did.  
      October 5, 2016 12:30 PM MDT
    1

  • 534
    Thank you for your answer my2cents. Did you go to the link? I knew about some of the historians listed but not all.
      October 6, 2016 10:31 PM MDT
    0

  • 2965
    Yes I followed your link. No I didn't know all of the historians listed.
      October 12, 2016 5:34 AM MDT
    0

  • 534
    I don't see how so many seem to try and deny that he existed. More proof of Jesus than many other widely accepted people of historical importance. 
      October 12, 2016 1:03 PM MDT
    2

  • 2965
    Some just want to argue.
      October 12, 2016 1:25 PM MDT
    0

  • 534
    In the old answermug when you commented, it would bring the question back to the top of the category. The new answermug is not doing that for me. Is it for you? Just Asking says: "Our thread commenting is set up the same way it was on the old site". Is there a way to bring this question back to the top of the category?
    http://www.answermug.com/forums/59
      October 18, 2016 12:23 AM MDT
    0

  • 2965
    I have not seen questions move because of latest answer. I think they are simply in order asked. I don't see a way to sort them by latest activity either.
      October 18, 2016 4:40 AM MDT
    0

  • 534
    You can't yet. JA just told me it may be that way in the future:
    "The list of questions did have an option to sort by latest activity. That may be something we can integrate in the future."
      October 18, 2016 6:11 AM MDT
    1

  • 400
    Absolutely, positively he existed! most important he existed before his existence on earth, and exists now as High priest, and Messianic king. (Colossians 1:15; Isaiah 9:6,7) This post was edited by Autumnleaves at December 26, 2016 11:24 AM MST
      October 13, 2016 11:35 PM MDT
    2

  • 534
    Absolutely! Thank you for your answer AL.
      December 13, 2016 4:32 AM MST
    1

  • 225
    I"ve heard different theories over the years; some claim that he did, as he is mentioned in one of the older historians, Josephus.....BUT THEN other scholars claim that that info was put there by the church fathers!!!!!  

    then other scholars say that the name "Jesus" was very common back then; like John to day, for example.

    then others say the other guys named Jesus were chalatans who went around performing magic tricks, etc.


    SO WHO THE HECK KNOWS FOR SURE!?!?


    my 'thing' is the shroud ot Turin.........way too much evidence that someone was in that cloth and whose body left an imprint that has been proven to NOT be painted on.........it's a long story..........check online sources if you are not familiar with it...........it's incredible!!


      November 27, 2016 12:09 PM MST
    1

  • 534
      December 11, 2016 2:41 AM MST
    0

  • 225
    Yes, I went to the link....thanks a lot.......I learned a lot from it......
      December 11, 2016 11:27 AM MST
    0

  • 534
    You're welcome and thank you!
      December 11, 2016 3:12 PM MST
    0

  • 2150
    I think books written about the historical Jesus show that from the writings of the Bible there is history as well. For one person to have caused a paradigm shift in society, Jesus must have existed. The Ancient Greek historian also wrote about how life was in the life of peasants and Jesus fits in this description. 
      December 11, 2016 3:24 AM MST
    3

  • 534
    Yes, I agree Marguerite. Did you go to the link?
      December 13, 2016 4:34 AM MST
    1

  • 2150
    @Texasesimo, yes, that is the reason I posted my answers. That book is very interesting.
      December 13, 2016 10:49 AM MST
    0

  • While you can find ancient historians who will argue that the historical figure of Jesus did not exist, it's a rare view.

    The evidence is difficult to argue against.  

    There are of course the 'amended' records (or early Christian church propaganda) which make up some of what is often sited as 'evidence'.  Parts of Josephus fall into this category.  This can be easily dismissed if sited for evidence, mostly because it's so badly done.  :)

    However, there are other, non-altered texts which cannot easily be dismissed.  The conclusion of any historian (or at least those without a book to promote) is that a person named Jesus existed during the time proposed and died in the manner described in the New Testament.  

    The entire story of Jesus when viewed through a proper history lens has so many holes in it that it quickly becomes apparent that the New Testament contains some truth, some wishful thinking and some nonsense.

    This of course, says nothing about the divinity of this person, merely that he existed.  But it's almost certain he did.
      December 11, 2016 5:16 AM MST
    1

  • 534
    Thank you for your answer MrWitch. Did you read the article in the link?
    I agree with most of your post. Most educated historians agree that he existed but atheistic historians and some others don't believe in the miracles er perhaps the "some wishful thinking and some nonsense" as that would require the belief in a god, yes?"

    Part of an article from 2012: 

    Opposers who observed the miracles did not question that they had occurred. When Jesus resurrected his friend Lazarus, Jesus’ religious enemies did not question that Lazarus had been dead. How could they? Lazarus had been buried for four days. (John 11:45-48; 12:9-11) Even centuries after Jesus’ death, the writers of the Jewish Talmud continued to acknowledge that Jesus had miraculous powers. They simply questioned the source of those powers. Similarly, when Jesus’ disciples were brought before a Jewish court, the question they were asked was not “Did you perform a miracle?” But they were asked: “By what power or in whose name did you do this?”—Acts 4:1-13.
      December 13, 2016 4:42 AM MST
    0

  • It's a very long time since my degree, and I confess the majority of my answer was from memory (so likely to be less than fully reliable.  :))

    I did read the links you placed, and they pretty much confirmed what I had learned all those years ago.  I seem to recall other evidence not mentioned - Mara bar Sarapion's letter, for example, seems to me to be another direct reference (though the date is still in doubt).  

    While I take the 'historical view' and do not, I think, suffer from the wish being the father of the thought, there is little doubt in my mind that the person of Jesus did exist and was a social and political 'event' for the locals and wider powers while he lived (and, of course, afterwards).

    There are many 'doctored' bits and pieces in the historical record that attempt to 'prove' the existence of Jesus, but thankfully, their level of sophistication is aimed at the population of the time and usually make themselves less compelling to modern eyes as a result.  The facts remain however, that there is more than enough material just on secondary sources to be able to say, 'Yes' to the question, 'Did Jesus live?'  Exact details may still elude, but there is little doubt of that, I think.

    As an aside, we sat and watched a film last night which I think you might enjoy (if you haven't already seen it).  Here's a link.  I was very, very impressed with the historical accuracy of the film - something I always look for - and will probably watch it again.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risen_(2016_film)
      December 13, 2016 6:02 AM MST
    1

  • 534
    Thank you MrWitch. It has always been a delight talking with you. I am not familiar with that movie but may try to watch it if I remember and the opportunity avails itself.


    EDIT: Found this interesting about Testimonium Flavianum:
    http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013208?q=%22Did+Josephus+Really+Write+It%22&p=par
    Did Josephus Really Write It?
      This post was edited by texasescimo at December 14, 2016 5:42 AM MST
      December 13, 2016 6:21 AM MST
    0

  • 534
    Hello again MrWitch. Not sure if you were familiar with the Prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 about the timing of the Messiah? Be sure and look at the chart and do the math:
    http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005151

    How Daniel’s Prophecy Foretells the Messiah’s Arrival

      December 13, 2016 6:33 AM MST
    0