.
i blame the people that use the guns
What about instigators/hatemongers/racists like Donald Trump who egg people on to commit violence? At one rally he encouraged his mindless adorers to attack anyone who protested and said he would pay the legal fees. You think someone like him is blameless? I disagree. Trump supporters are programmed by him to do/say exactly what he wants them to do/say, They don't care what it is if Trump says it they believe it. So we kinda sorta disagree. So what, right? 
Thank you for your reply Cait and Happy Sunday.
Protesting has everything to do with underlying issues excon. If they didn't exist there would be nothing to protest. But you are saying that violence exists for its own sake and has no other basis? I'm going to have to think about that. It's a concept that on the face of it makes no sense. Why get violent about nothing?
Thank you for your reply and Happy Sunday! :)
What about the instigators? Do they have nothing to do with it? What about the hatemongers and racists and bigots that rile people up? Are they blameless? If that is your position I totally disagree with it . Thank you for your reply B and Happy Sunday to thee.
What about the instigators Baba? Are they blameless? They may not shoot the gun that murders the person
but they provide it and the bullets and the targets. I think they are equally guilty. Thank you for your reply and Happy Sunday! :)
Hello again, not:
Uhh, sure it does. It's called civil disobedience.. If it was good enough for Gandhi, it's good enough for us.
excon
Which instigators, hatemongers, racists and bigots do you feel should be held accountable? And how do you propose to do so?
You rail against Trump here daily, and have either implied or outright accused him of being all those things. You cannot pin the blame for this on Trump, Rosie. He may not help the racial divide in this country, but he certainly didn't cause it.
Or should we blame the media which hypes the cases where a blacks are shot by the police, and anything else they can inject race into, whether it is, in fact, a racial issue or not?
He had "liked" two groups on FB that are racist and foment violence...the New Black Panther Party and the African American Defense League. The founder of the AADL specifically calls for violence against police. Do we hold these groups accountable because he liked them on FB? And how do we do that?
We do not know exactly what motivated Johnson, but there are no indications that he had any ties to the BLM movement. He appeared to be planning his attack for some time, and simply took the opportunity offered by the protest for his own agenda. If that protest had not have taken place, he would have used some other event where a large police presence was required.
Ultimately, we are each responsible for our own actions.
Bozette,
I like your measured and non-hysterical ways of dealing with these tricky questions.
It's clear that you don't accept racism,
and at the same time
clear that you don't like knee jerk reactions without examining each situation carefully.
I wish we could all do this.
It would probably reduce a great deal of the violence
and help us begin to find better ways of dealing with the causes.
GrilledCheezeGirl posted a brilliant blog on July 7th which I think everyone should view.
It contains a 1.2 hour lecture on the subject of Post Traumatic Race Shock -
very slow delivery of the ideas but potent and well-proven.
Understanding those ideas, I believe could be a starting point for healing.
The most relevant realisation for me, as a white with a somewhat waspy background,
is that I carry these same wounds in my past too.
Until I learn more clearly how this works, I can inadvertently be part of the problems and not know it
even though I stand strongly against all forms of racism.
Thank you, hartfire.
I accept that racism exists, though I don't get with it and I hate how it is being used to divide us.
No, I do not like knee-jerk reactions. Whether it is the public jumping to conclusions before facts are known, politicians and/or the media spinning tragedies to their agenda or advantage, or laws being pushed through just to say we are doing something...I believe more harm than good comes from such haste.
I'll check out that blog, thanks.
Hello w:
Wow.. That was really brilliant..
excon
Hello again, not:
I don't disagree, and I'm conflicted about it.. Couple things about it, though..
"Licensed and Permitted" protests (which is a contradiction in terms), often times close down streets. They interfere with my right to move around freely.. When my city has 5K runs, they close down lots of roads. That also interferes with my freedom to move around. The 4th of July too. The WORST, however, was last summer when it was VERY HOT, and I don't have air conditioning.. A cop stopped traffic for a funeral... Now, this guy MUST have had a LOT of friends, cause they held us there for over 15 minutes.. Yes, I yelled at the cop, "HE'S DEAD!".
So, if my rights to move around freely were NEVER trampled upon by society, I can see why this ONE disruption would be troublesome.. If that sounds like I'm reaching for justification, I am. But, if your right to travel around freely were pitted against MY right to DISOBEY in a civil manner, I'll pick the right to protest..
Finally, I might remind you that this country was FOUNDED on an act of civil disobedience.. I'm SURE the owners of the tea felt like THEIR rights had been violated..
excon
Thank you for your reply CSV. They are often riled up by their puppetmasters. They react as they are brainwashed to react. It is very sad how automatic and unthinking they are. :(
The reason for violence in the world is explained in the bible. The world situation today can be compared to the days before the great global deluge. Genesis 6:11,12 says: "but the earth had become ruined in the sight of the true God, and the earth was filled with violence. Yes, God looked upon the earth, and it was ruined; all flesh had ruined its way on the earth." The ones mainly at fault aside from human imperfection, were the evil and wicked rebellious angels, along with their offspring. So today, the world is being influenced by wicked demonic forces. (revelation 16:14,16)
Rather than blaming, I try to understand.
Australia has its share of racism. We have committed almost total genocide against the Aboriginal nations, and it is a testament to their resilience and courage that they have more than recovered their numbers -- but many carry the psychic scars of generations of different forms of persecution. My ancestors on both sides were among the perpetrators and I feel ashamed of it.
We also have racism between different ethnic groups, not everywhere but where ever there is poverty and not enough jobs. The earliest waves of immigrants suffered until their children and grandchildren became assimilated. Some groups have suffered more than others depending mostly on the degree of cultural difference.
At present our deepest shame is the way our government is treating "illegal immigrants" which is their euphemism for asylum seekers and refugees. We are putting them in concentration camps on islands belonging to New Guinea. And the conditions are causing severe trauma. We have activists campaigning against it and legal actions in the high court to try to stop it.
I've been trying to follow the shocking news in the USA, trying to make "sense" of it. But it's senseless. It's emotions gone mad.
I could be wrong because the news can mis-report and we certainly don't know all the facts - but it seems as if many tensions have been simmering below the surface for a long time. There has been a rise in the numbers of deaths from police shooting civilians and vice versa, but far more innocents are getting shot than cops. Blacks and Hispanics are 50% more likely to be shot than whites, consistently, year after year, usually without provocation or just cause.
I suspect that there may be not just racism but also reverse racism. Now I'm only guessing here. If I'm wrong please correct me. Tell it to me straight. If there is reverse racism, that would mean whites expect blacks to hate them and feel afraid of them. It would mean that a white cop is full of the adrenaline of fear when he decides to pull up a black driver -- he is already primed to react aggressively, to misinterpret the slightest action as a potential attack. He shoots first. It does NOT excuse the behaviour, but it could explain why it happens. If this is right it means there is a profound failing in the training of the cops. Is it systematic? Is there a reason why they're not trained to be just and fair, and to control their emotions? If it is systematic then there are much deeper questions to be asked about the causes of failure by authorities.
I can 't answer your question about reverse racism hartfire. I can only speak for me. I'm "white" and I have never expected blacks to hate me. My best real-life friend not including relatives currently is the lovely lady who lives across the street. She is like a sister to me and like a sister to Jim. We hit it off from the very beginning when she moved into the neighborhood a few years ago. All 3 of us are Scorpios so we attributed the immediate connection to that. She happens to be an African American just as I happen to be an Armenian American. In school I was always drawn to those who were outgoing and friendly because I was painfully shy and didn't know how to reach out. Some of the people that have reached out to me over the years have happened to be other ethnicities. Maybe they sensed my inadequacies/fear. I don't know. But I appreciate anyone who goes out of his/her way to make contact . For me it has been more often non-whites so I guess if I am guilty of reverse racism it would be against whites which I guess is kinda weird. But I can only go by my personal experience and I never speak for others . Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I cannot explain the degree of racism/bigotry/hate/homophobia in America hartfire. It frightens me as do those who are racists/ bigots/ homophobic/hatemongers. It seems to be getting worse. They seem to think because of Donald Trump they now have license/permission to be openly racist. I don't know how it will end
or when it will end or if it will end but I am not hopeful. :(
It's horrible to be a helpless witness to these things happening in the media, and yet it's more sensible to know than avoid knowing.
I respect the fact that by your questions you try to encourage people to talk about it and reach an understanding.
In fact, I think I'll take a leaf from your book and try to ask a question on it myself.
That's exactly the point m'dear. If we can talk to one another about our differences without being rude or insulting then maybe we can figure out a way to get along better. But if we just stay within our ideological political/religious communities and never try to understand those who disagree with us we will always be at odds with one another. I don't understate hate. I have never felt that emotion. I don't understand why some folks get so very angry with one another simply because they have a different opinion. Some folks seem to feel that if you disagree with them you are attacking their character/integrity/honor. So they shut off, shut down, and don't listen. That makes it impossible to communicate so that's what perpetuates these enclaves of hate. Refusing to listen. I know my questions are not for everyone. They never have been. I can only ask questions that occur to me. They occur to me because I see so much that is contradictory/hypocritical and I cannot be the only person who observes it. If I knew everything I wouldn't need to ask questions. Because I don't and be cause I'm endlessly curious I don't run out of questions. Every day there are more things that occur that are questionable so I ask a
bout them. Anyway thanks for being among the folks who understand the why of my questions. :)
