if you vote, does the party you vote for represent all the policies you support? What would you change if you could?

I vote Democrat and will never vote Republican but I don't understand the premise of supporting illegal immigration and ignoring the existing laws. If those laws are unjust then change them, don't KEEP them and set up "sanctuary cities" where people are rewarded for openly flouting the law. That makes no sense to me.

No, I look at the broader platform.

Then why do you vote for the people supporting what you don't believe in? 

The Democratic Party CLAIMS to represent most of my views, but in reality....

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy

Of course, the GOP is even more blatantly Corporatist Kleptocratic than the Democratic Party, and they mix in healthy doses of racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and authoritariansm, so they're no picnic either.

And, of course, none of the minor parties in the US political system have any chance and voting for them simply strengthens the party I dislike most.

   I have nothing to add more than has been said already.  I think you are right in "voting your conscience".  Isn't that hilarious that the Cruz' of the party are getting that ideology slammed right back at them?

Instead of picking someone they feel is better than Trump. They are so conceited/stupid, they think everyone is going to vote for them instead.  Oh God.  Vote your conscience and you vote GREEN.

So, good, hart.

I am voting (if I bother to vote it is only to keep Trump out) for Hillary because I am a strategist.  This is war and I have to get Trump and the Republican'ts as far away from the Oval as possible.

So, she is the only one that has a chance.

I cannot see Trump in that chair.  I will not be able to find a place on earth that is far enough from here to move to, but if he gets in, I am moving out of the USA.  I promise you.    Probably South India.  Is that far enough?

I most align with the Green party (I've only recently learned), but I've always considered myself "independent". I voted Democrat in the primary, as I truly felt that Bernie Sanders represented most of what I believe in. I doubt that anyone agrees 100% with every single thing that any one party (or candidate) believes. Much as I don't like the idea, I think I've decided that I must vote for Hillary (rather than Jill Stein), because I feel like a vote for anyone else is a vote for Trump, and we simply must not have that vile creature as president. I'm not happy about voting for Hillary, I believe that she still leans way too far right to even be a true democrat (she was a republican prior to meeting her husband, you know). I just don't feel that those of us who are smart enough to know that "The United States Of Donald Trump" isn't a place we want to live have any other valid option. 

Recently read a book, "Affluence and Influence," by a Princeton professor. It confirms what is said in the article you recommended above.

Plato objected to democracy on the grounds that it would always inevitably decay into tyranny, oligarchy being just one step along the way. His theory proved right in the Athens of his day, and again in ancient Rome.

In your declaration of independence I believe there is a clause about the right of the people to rebel against an unjust rule.

I wonder what it would take for any modern democracy to make such a move.

If you put a frog in hot water, it jumps straight out: if you put it in cold and slowly bring up the temperature, it cooks to death. I wonder is this the way our democracies might one day go?

If you could, what new laws would you enact that would create a more just outcome for immigrants?

BTW, nice to see you here again, Bijoux. I was always your admirer on EP. :)

Guessing - if the broad approach is sufficiently in agreement with your views, you don't sweat the small stuff.

Thank you. :)

I think strategic views such as yours probably are the only real choice coming up at your next election.

I agree that Hilary is the better choice out of the two.

In Australia, we feel the ripple effects of America's politics quite strongly in economic and military policies.

It looks as though both Dems and Reps have taken a swing to the right - that the whole country is headed that way.

One can only hope it might lead to a swing back to the left after enough people have had enough of the results.

I feel gloomy about the current future prospects.

I would vote against Clinton. 

I respect your right to do so.

Yes, I feel pretty gloomy about it, too. It's especially difficult after we were relatively close to having a real change, with Bernie. He really didn't do himself any favors calling himself a "democratic socialist", though. In this country we're taught that communism and socialism are evil, even though they most certainly aren't. 

Thanks for posting a thoughtful question! 

Thanks. Someone special gave me a hint about the way politics get discussed around here. He only takes an interest if the conversation is thoughtful and constructive. I also like that. So I thought I'd give it a try. Glad it worked.

:)

This is one reason I find the popularity of Donald Trump so vexing. He is clearly a member of the Plutocrat Class. He has always been so, and his whole life has largely been about advertising than fact and using others' asparation/jealousy to increase his plutocratic weath/influence.

Yet many Americans seem to believe (with essentially ZERO evidence) that he will suddenly turn class traitor and govern on behalf of the underclass in America. I realize there are other factors at work (racism/xenophobia, mass media culture, the sellout to the Plutocrats by the Democratic party, etc.), but on the face of it Trump's popularity seems ridiculously deluded.

I believe Sai Baba's communities are still alive and well after his death, thriving.

I think you would find India a fabulous place, perhaps even in company with answerMugger Baba.

I hope I get to hear what choices you make.

:)

I have been a devotee of Satya Sai for many years.   There are Centers all over the place.  They are very unobtrusive and do not advertise for new members.  That is not how they come around.  It just happens or it doesn't.  We are weird that way. LOL

I have been friends with the AM Baba all the time I have known him at Answer Bag, but he is not a follower of Satya Sai Baba.  He is very much of the same mind set, but I think he follows a different path, not real sure.

He is wonderful and I never have a problem understanding where he is coming from that is for sure.  As far as my moving to South India, that is not going to actually happen.  I may visit there, but I am way too American to adapt to a country where I do not know the language, much less any of the people, enough to just cast my fate to the wind and be comfortable and secure.  I don't have the money to just pack up and go to points unknown.  I will go there, not living there though.  No plans anyway.  Who knows?

Just having money doesn't make a person a member of the club. If Donald Trump is truly a member of the plutocrat class then why does the establishment hate him so much? He'd fit right in wouldn't he? Instead the establishment is running scared (and probably seriously considering blowing his head off.)

Suggest you might be interested in a quick look at Old School's suggestion :

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-l...

Princeton University and many other academics now have solid statistical proof that the major parties listen to and act on the requests and interests of the rich much more often than the poor. Both parties. This is a non-sectarian tendency which is eroding real democracy, and doing it as much in secret as it can - which is to say - far more than the general populace is aware of.

This is a non-sectarian tendency which is eroding real democracy, and doing it as much in secret as it can - which is to say - far more than the general populace is aware of.

This doesn't mean that there aren't differences of opinion between the wealthy. No one group anywhere is without divisions.

I would wager a bet that there's a huge block of prejudice from the old wealth families towards those who've made their wealth within one lifetime.

Of all the Indian gurus, I admired him most for pouring all his wealth into schools and hospitals and keeping none for himself. To me, that spoke volumes more than vibuti.

We have one of his schools in our area, which does especially well in healing emotionally disturbed kids. The results in improved behaviour and happiness are very clear. wealso have a community near by. And Ari and I like to get our milk from the cows of a couple of devotees because they never kill or harm the calves.

Namaste, friend.

I completely agree that a moneyed elite runs the world.

Though you can bet that "the differences of opinion" you mention are for significant reasons. The club doesn't get butthurt because they feel a politician isn't politically correct.

The elite invented identity politics as a means of control. They're not smoking their own dope.

The elite might be a bit snobby about new money though ultimately they're about the bottom line. If they don't support him, it's because they think he's bad for business. If they'd rather have Hillary it's because she's better for business.

Money rules the world. It always has. It always will. Leftist ideas don't work. The only question is what kind capitalist will win out; the builders or the thieves.

While the metaphor is inexact, Donald Trump is Nouveau Riche while most of the Plutocrat Class either IS Old Money or behaves like Old Money.

Because Trump's is still in the "Hey Lookit Me!" phase of his Plutocrat membership, he is unpredictable. Plutocrats who have matured (if that's the right word) past the "Hey Lookit Me!" phase can be counted upon to reliably act as good soldiers in the Class War. The Plutocrats don't like uncertainty; it's bad for business. That's why Trump makes them nervous.

That's an interesting perspective.

I've never met any billionaire types, so I really have no idea.

But I can look up more detail,

and think about your thoughts.

Thank you.