Active Now

Lenina
CallMeIshmael
Nom de Plume
Patchouli
Zack
Stu Bee
CLURT
excon
Slartibartfast
Randy D
Just Asking
bhwilson
Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » Do women still have to be better than men in every regard to compete with them? When will the day come when being just as good is enough?

Do women still have to be better than men in every regard to compete with them? When will the day come when being just as good is enough?

Posted - October 11

Responses


  • 3001
    I think if we are going to "compete" with men then yes.  But why compete with them?  Why not just be ourselves and play it the way we ourselves  do best?  Then men will want to help us, not compete with us.  Which I have found most men are willing and eager to do.  The novelty of the "female colleague" has worn off and though  natural man/woman dynamics still exist and will always exist we learn how to effectively use them rather than deny them and try to be "one of the boys" which we will never be. We have to hold up our end and even go beyond that to do well for our employers because the bottom line will always be what counts most to them. 
      October 11, 2018 8:09 AM MDT
    1

  • 51203
    Thank you for your reply og.
      October 11, 2018 8:37 AM MDT
    1

  • 84
    Hi Rosie. Unfortunately, this still seems to be the case although it's changing slowly. What really bothers me is this current backlash of other women against "feminists" and advocates for women's rights. It's sad, given that those same women are certainly reaping the benefits of advances and rights that were only gained through the meticulous and deliberate work of like feminists, who are now subject to harsh female criticism. Many women before me fought hard, made sacrifices and endured persecution to get us to the point that we are today. Men just do not charitably agree to the advancing of women's issues just because they are "nice guys." We will always have to continue to fight for any gains in equality. This post was edited by Lenina at October 11, 2018 8:39 AM MDT
      October 11, 2018 8:21 AM MDT
    1

  • 51203
     ((hugs)) Couldn't have said it better meself m'dear. Seriously. SIGH. I surely wish I could have disagreed with thee and then we could have had a lengthy conversation exchanging our different views and why we held them. But I see no daylight between us so I just smile and sigh wish to he** I knew why "the other" women out there are so disdainful of women. I don't know whether I get angrier or sadder when I see/hear dames say "poor man" and all that crap. They join the bandwagon attack against their own kind. What is that all about? Are they secret man wannabes? Do they dislike being a female and wish they weren't and so they take every opportunity to worship a super don and Kickapoo Joy Juice (Kav) and denigrate deprecate  revile other women? I don't get it. I never will. They don't want to be bothered with facts. Thinking is hard work so they don't investigate anything on their own. They just swallow the swill already provided for them by " the group" (aka the men) and move on. Thank you for your reply Lenina and Happy Thursday! :)
      October 11, 2018 8:36 AM MDT
    1

  • 3001
    I was a feminist 40 years ago and have been for some years subject to  "harsh female criticism" because I choose not to think and act the way I am told that a "feminist" is supposed to.  And as a feminist I did not "fight hard", "make sacrifices" (not really), or "endure persecution".  I simply lived my life as I wished with the understanding of who I am and what was important to me.  Nor did I ever fall for any narrow political claptrap about "advancing women's issues" or  ever feel I had to "gain equality" or that somehow only men could advance what was important to me.  We don't have to "gain equality" because we ARE equal - we don't exist without each other!  Which does not mean we all must wear the same clothing and make the same salary, believe in the same things, own the same things.  And rather than see issues as gender-specific I choose to think of them rather as human issues and act accordingly.  Just as I will not think in terms of "women's rights" because that is much to narrow and exclusive.  We achieve respect by working hard and making ourselves valuable to our employers rather than by insisting upon any exclusive agendas.  We need to be respectful to gain respect nice guys or not because we will never be just "one of the guys" nor should we try to be.  I make my own decisions based upon my experience and any so-called "feminist" who expects that instead I will follow some sort of political party line greatly underestimates me and far as I am concerned forfeits my support.  I choose not to "fight" but to just be myself and any success I have had in work or life can belong to any one of us if we are willing to do what it takes to achieve it.  Because then it belongs to us rather than being just the crumbs from men's tables. 
      October 11, 2018 9:05 AM MDT
    1

  • 84
    There is so much embedded in your message but I will respond to some key points. Maybe you didn't "fight hard" but certainly there are women who did. And I am talking about basic rights, such as the right to divorce men at our will, the right to own property, the right to have control of our reproductive systems and have access to birth control, the right to vote, the right to fight for custody of our children, the right to not be sexually harassed in the workplace. The list goes on. 

    Many women who fought to pave the way for these basic rights were in fact, imprisoned, threatened, and physically harmed. You can't rewrite this history.

    To say that these things would have just been "given" to us had we just continued to go along with the merry status quo, is not reality. There is still work to be done.

    I happen to be in a field that was created by and continues to be dominated by women. But we are still historically paid less than our male counterparts for the same work. I just call b******t on that.


      October 11, 2018 9:22 AM MDT
    1

  • 3001
    Most of the things you are referring to were way before my time.    Or my mother's time.  Not would I disparage any woman or man who "fought" for them back in those days.  Women a little older than I am (I am 60) tell me of how they could not establish their own line of credit  unless their husband (presuming they had one!) signed off on it and what it was like trying to get an abortion in the 1960s before it was legal (which it became about the time I fist became sexually active).  Harassment at work I can't see as a "right" but rather simply of properly handling what comes our way which it will always from men for a couple of reasons. I have worked primarily among men for many years so I wrote the book (figuratively) on that - we just don't try and play  their game or try to beat them at it!  But if our employers do not value us no way any "rights" are going to keep us there because those are many of the same games that men play competing with one another as well. 

    Anything which has to be "given" us by the "status quo" does not belong to us anyway.  On the other hand understanding the status quo and using it is vital to our success. 

    What I have done for almost 30 years now back in the day was labeled as "secretarial"  although now goes by other description and I have done very well at it because I was willing to devote my efforts toward pleasing those I worked for and thus made myself an asset to the  company. Never thought about being paid "less" because that was none of my business  what any man was paid and really I had no "male counterparts".   No two people are going to be equally valuable to any employer so pay is going to be based on how valuable we are and not based on our sex. The days when men received a "living wage" because they were expected to have to support families is long over as well. 

    I consider myself to have been fortunate in my employer as well as my male colleagues. I have done dramatically better than I ever even imagined I could have by simple application and understanding and taking some initiative.  I can no longer regard it as any kind of "cause" because what is now regarded by many as the cause  has bypassed me and chooses not to include me. I no longer matter to many who consider themselves 'feminists" because I no longer parrot their teachings and actions and I refuse to go along with their kind of thinking and methods. I needed to learn about myself and what my strengths and weaknesses were and my capabilities were so my feminist training was valuable to me.  But eventually  it just all became about politics and not about us. 
      October 11, 2018 10:44 AM MDT
    0