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Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » Is it possible to create virus/bacteria in a lab? What happens if we discover China did just that? Declare war?

Is it possible to create virus/bacteria in a lab? What happens if we discover China did just that? Declare war?

Posted - May 27, 2021

Responses


  • 6023
    Of course it's possible.
    I'd be willing to be just about every country has labs doing so.
    It's not that difficult ... just get a virus and put it in an environment it will grow.
    I mean, humanity has been engaging in biological warfare since it discovered how to use carcasses to poison water supplies.

    We will never declare war on China.  Their military is too strong.
    We couldn't even win an economic war against them.
    Not to mention all the countries that owe them, due to their global investments in the infrastructure and education of those nations.
      May 27, 2021 8:09 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    You do mean OF COURSE? Here's my thinking. They are LIVING. We can't create life in a lab can we? Babies and puppies for instance? You say yes we can create virus/bacteria. Create life in a lab? I dunno Walt. I'm not disputing you but I have to think about it. I know we can create poisonous chemicals for chemical warfare. Beyond that? I have to think about it. When you say use carcasses to poison water supplies that's because there was something wrong with the dead thing right? We didn't induce anything. I wish this were a moot discussion. Oh what do we do if we find that CHINA did it and released it on purpose? Oh dear. More to worry about! Thank you for your reply Walt and Happy Thursday! :)
      May 27, 2021 8:38 AM MDT
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  • 6023
    Well if you mean actually create ... that's much more difficult.
    Even growing artificial organs or clones, they have to start with material they don't create.

    But what labs do is take an existing virus/bacteria, and make it stronger.
    Like a little Steve Austin. (No relation to the wrestler "Stone Cold" Steve Austin.) We make them stronger, faster, etc, etc.
      May 27, 2021 11:43 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    So we can't CREATE we can just ENHANCE? Think it can ever be done on a 3D printer? I mean things today are way crackpotty to me. Or just say it and it is done? I think therefore I am. I ask and therefore I get? Where does it end my friend? Thank you for your reply Walt! :)
      May 27, 2021 11:50 AM MDT
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  • 6023
    Not a virus or bacteria ... but you could theoretically create a nano-machine to attack the target.
      May 27, 2021 11:51 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    Oh boy. What is a NANO machine? I think I'm gonna get kinda scared with your answer. Thank you for your reply Walt! OK. I'm sitting down.
      May 27, 2021 11:53 AM MDT
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  • 6023

    They are machines built on a microscopic level.
    Generally called NANITES.

      May 27, 2021 11:56 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? BUILD MICROSCOPIC MACHINES? OK. Can you explain what you mean because it is above my ability to comprehend. Who does the creating and who does the building MICROSCOPICALLY? Oh. They shrink every one down right? :)
      May 27, 2021 12:09 PM MDT
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  • 6023

    hahahahahaha ... I like that image, of shrinking everyone down.  Like the movie Fantastic Voyage.  
    And then all the microscopic people work in microscopic factories.  

    Nah.  They basically use the same technology that lets us create chips with the computing power beyond what used to take up entire buildings.

    Imagine a robot the size of a single-cell organism.
    Engineers develop laser-controlled, cell-sized robots | Penn Today (upenn.edu)

      May 28, 2021 8:44 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    A robot complete with inner wiring the size of a single-cell organism? Can YOU imagine that Walt?  I mean how do they get the wiring inside the single cell? What kind of tools instruments do they use? By the way I liked that movie bunches. Fantastic Voyage. Better than HONEY I SHRUNK THE KIDS which I think is a movie but one I made it a point to not see. Something I don't get. How do we make anything with a 3-D printer like body parts for instance? I've never seen a 3D machine. Have you? If it's like 3-dimensional chess it's beyond my grasp. Thank you for your reply Walt. I shall check out the link. Thanks for that too! :) This post was edited by RosieG at May 28, 2021 8:52 AM MDT
      May 28, 2021 8:49 AM MDT
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  • 258
    Hello Rosie G,

    Yes it is possible to manipulate a virus in a lab, but having investigated the genetic structure of the “SARS-CoV-2 virus (causing "covid-19”), scientists have concluded it is natural, however see the "gain of function" research query about it, below. Therefore it has not been manipulated in a lab.

    The current concern is not one of a lab-"devised" pathogen. The concern is that while investigating bat viruses, a lab in Wuhan China could have suffered a failure in security, resulting in this virus leaking (escaping) from their lab.

    While the Coronavirus has appeared to be of natural origin, there is an unresolved “gain of function research” query regarding it (see below). Perhaps but not proven, extracted by scientists from bats; but how the virus got into human beings, who was ‘patient zero’ and if they had any connection to a lab (lab leak), remains currently unresolved.

     

    Due to the World high mortality total caused by Cornavirus (“covid-19” since defined as the name for the disease caused by the virus) the world is owed a frank factual-explanation by China:

     

    * There ARE two virus laboratories in Wuhan, Hubei Province, China:
    the “Wuhan Institute of Virology” (“WIV”),
    and the “Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention” (“Wuhan CDC”),
    (“the Wuhan labs”); the same city where the first infections were reported.

     

    * The WIV extracted cornavirus from bats, but deny having-had the “SARS-CoV-2” virus in-stock at the time of the outbreak:
    - - - - Start of extracts: - - - -

    “[...] the lab [WIV state that they] started research into COVID-19 on December 30 [2019] when it received samples of a pneumonia of an unknown cause from the Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital. [...]

     

    The lab [WIV] obtained the whole genome sequence of the virus and identified it as a novel coronavirus from isolated strains. The virus sequence was submitted to the World Health Organization on January 11 [2020 ...].”

     

    Extract source:
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1187936.shtml

    - - - - End of extracts - - - -

     

     

    * Chinese people do NOT eat bats (in mainland China); so no bats sold at the Wuhan Wild / wet market(s).

     

    * Following the bat theory of transmission to humans, it has since been reported:
    - - - - Start of extract: - - - -

    “Experts [no identification] think [no evidence provided] the new coronavirus [...] jumped to humans via an intermediary animal species

     

    [However, no “SARS-CoV-2” virus detected in animals at the Wuhan Wild / Wet market(s) (see source below).]

     

    Extract source:
    See previous source.
    - - - - End of extract - - - -

     

    * The Wuhan lab(s) claim to have found no match for the “SARS-CoV-2” virus, with the genetic information of other bat coronaviruses they had collected (see previous source); thus failing to exclude the possibilities that the Wuhan lab(s) had: “Collected” the virus whether Knowingly or Unknowingly followed by its accidental escape.

     

    * Wuhan CDC states Wuhan markets found NOT to be the source of the Coronavirus:
    - - - - Start of extract: - - - -

    “Samples collected from animals at the market came back negative for the new coronavirus, suggesting that they couldn’t have infected shoppers.”

     

    Extract source:
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/chinese-cdc-now-says-coronavirus-224900090.html

    - - - - End of extract - - - -

     

     

    - - - - Start of extract: - - - -

     

    [Heading:] “Intelligence on Sick Staff at Wuhan Lab Fuels Debate on Covid-19 Origin

    By Michael R. Gordon, Warren P. Strobel and Drew Hinshaw

    The Wall Street Journel

    May 23, 2021 2:57 pm ET

     

    “WASHINGTON-Three researchers from China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology became sick enough in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, according to a previously undisclosed U.S. intelligence report that could add weight to growing calls for a fuller probe of whether the Covid-19 virus may have escaped[https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-intelligence-sifts-evidence-for-origins-of-coronavirus-11587077170?mod=article_inline] from the laboratory.

     

    The details of the reporting go beyond a State Department fact sheet, issued during the final days of the Trump administration, which said that several researchers at the lab, a center for the study of coronaviruses and other pathogens, became sick in autumn 2019 “with symptoms consistent with both Covid-19 and common seasonal illness.””

     

    Extract source:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-wuhan-lab-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228?st=tdj7v9q1nst58t6&reflink=article_copyURL_sharehare

     

    - - - - End of extract - - - -

     

    * Unclear in what manner the covid-19 virus first accessed human beings.

     

    * The only logical method for the Cornavirus to escape the Wuhan lab(s), would be by way of infected Wuhan lab(s) employee(s).

     

    * Unclear who was ‘Patient Zero’, and whether they had “connection” with the Wuhan lab(s).

     

    * While currently no evidence of an escape of this virus from the Wuhan lab(s), it tends to insult common-sense to assert no-connection between the proximity of the Wuhan lab(s) (having admitted to collecting similar viruses) and the outbreak in Wuhan.

     

    The information spread on the Internet tends to look somewhat like deliberate-fake-news, since it appears to change as reaction to other more factual information as it emerges; the oldest fake-news listed first as follows:

    i) A virus found in bats caused an infection at the Wuhan wet and wild market(s):
    while ignoring the possibility of an accidental-escape of such a virus from the Wuhan lab(s), which had been busy extracting viruses, indeed from bats.
    ii) Reports of Chinese people eating bats (without mentioning this refers only to Palau and Indonesia; not to mainland China):
    https://observers.france24.com/en/20200203-china-coronavirus-bat-soup-debunk-videos-viral-palau-indonesia
    iii) The Wuhan Lab - We didn’t have it in stock - what a relief ! See first source above.
    iv) It didn’t get into humans from bats but from some other “intermediary animal species”; now apparently a conspiracy between the bats and the pangolins!:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-pangolins-idUSKBN2010XA

    v) An American plot:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52224331

    vi) It didn’t originate in China at all, but entered China through imported frozen food:
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-origin-idUSKBN2861A2

    vii) Not from China but from an American lab !:
    https://www.insider.com/china-conspiracy-theory-claims-us-created-coronavirus-2021-1

     

    Further, factual-information released in a deceptive-manner, failing to address the possibility of either an accidental or intentional capture of the virus by the Wuhan lab, followed by an accidental-release of the virus by the Wuhan lab, as follows:
    The Cornavirus is natural - It wasn’t made in a lab!:
    https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/coronavirus-was-not-made-in-lab-says-who-expert

     

     

    - - - - Start of extract: - - - -

     

    “[...] Two labs in Wuhan were studying coronaviruses, experts told NBC News: the Wuhan Institute of Virology, or WIV, and the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, shorthanded as the Wuhan CDC. Researchers from both facilities collected the virus samples from bats in caves. The goal of the research was to learn more about a family of viruses that had already been proven lethal to humans in the 2002 SARS outbreak.

     

    Less is known about the Wuhan CDC, which is a short distance from the Wuhan wet market where officials first said the virus emerged. [...]”

     

    Extract source:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/did-coronavirus-really-escape-chinese-lab-here-s-what-we-n1199531

     

    - - - - End of extract - - - -


    Concerns:

    Possible lab. accident: 
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/could-accident-caused-covid-19-080006497.html

    Opinion of former C.D.C. (U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) Director, Robert Redfield: 
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-cdc-chief-redfield-says-174736606.html

     

    Possible “Gain of function”* to engineer the virus cleavage site and polishing the new viruses to enhance human cell infectibility - Papers from rejected 2018 grant application. Did this proposed research proceed?: 
    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/wuhan-scientists-planned-release-skin-145326556.html

    * “Gain of function” research genetically alters an organism in a way that may enhance the biological functions of gene products: 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gain-of-function_research

     

    Finding fault over any accidental lab leak, serves no purpose. Rather, solidarity between countries in such a crisis, serves better. Human beings are not perfect and so are capable of making mistakes.

     

    However, the Chinese government needs to accept responsibility for the failings of the Wuhan lab(s): destroy the stocks of pathogen, and shut any offending lab down; before a new occurrence with a different virus in proximity to the Wuhan lab(s), not only embarrasses China, but again endangers the world.
    Other governments need to look long and hard at the risk posed by their own similar laboratories.


    Posted: Robert, May 27, 2021 1:46 PM MDT.
    Edited to include "gain of function" research query.


    This post was edited by Robert at September 22, 2021 7:35 AM MDT
      May 27, 2021 1:46 PM MDT
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  • 113301
    I don't know what to say to you Robert other than thank you for investing so much of your time to educate us. I appreciate it a great deal. You're new to me so hi there. Hope you and your family are doing well and have stayed safe! Thank you for your very helpful informative and thorough reply and Happy Friday to you and yours! :) I read this through once but once won't be enough so I'll do it again. :)
      May 28, 2021 8:56 AM MDT
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  • 258
    Just to be clear: I'm not trying to educate anyone, but to provide information as accurately as I can.

    Edit:
    I have since edited that post to include an unresolved "gain of function" research query about the Coronavirus.



    This post was edited by Robert at September 22, 2021 7:31 AM MDT
      May 29, 2021 11:38 AM MDT
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