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Benedict Arnold

When does racism become a crime?

Aside from the obvious like when someone hurts or kills or causes damage to someone or their property...  Here in the UK it's illegal to say something racist... and i think that's right.. we don't have the right in enjoying our *rights* to harm or infringe upon other's rights...  I am told by the good people, (that being a generalised term of address meaning all the people on here) on this list that it's not illegal there to express racist views.. 

I am interested in that.. out of curiosity while browsing the help section here I read a piece about free speech on here.. it said..."In other words, the Constitution promises Americans that Congress won't prevent you from speaking freely, but there are still caveats to this. For example, you can't yell "fire" in a public place when there is no danger. You also can't use "fighting words" or threats. This has been upheld by the courts repeatedly. You can be charged with a crime if you call someone a name and you can face legal consequences for it. "

So.. maybe I am not understanding something here... that seems pretty much the same deal we have here in the UK. if you say something racist like you are a big fat (insert derogatory racial name for a particular race or nation) to someome that IS calling someone a name isn't it? It's racial but it's a name.. a racial hate name...  

It would be reassuring to know that actually it's not legal there either to call people racially hateful names even if perhaps its more tolerated and less enforced when such names are used. 


Posted - November 23, 2016
Tags : None

Responses


  • 3934
    As I understand it, "free speech" guarantees in Europe are significantly narrower than in the United States. However, they are not absolute in the United States, either.

    Free speech cases often hinge on the time, place, and manner of the speech.

    For example, if I were to write on here, "Donald Trump is a [blankity-blank] and I want to kill him", I would expect to receive NO legal sanction for that statement. Such speech is protected (although the web site owner might remove the profanity) and because the death threat is not credible actual threat, it would not rise to law enforcement's attention.

    However, if I were at a public rally where protesters were heckling Donald Trump and I yelled, "Trump is a [blankety-blank] and we should kill him!" that might be construed as speech inciting violence and WOULD be subject to prosecution.

    Also, I understand that public reputation is much more protected by most European countries than in the United States. If I were to publicly exclaim "Donald Trump is a poopy-head!" in the USA, I have committted no crime and no court would award Trump damages if he sued me, because he is a "public figure" and such insults are considered part of the cost of being a public figure. In much of Europe, if I publicly exclaimed, "Donald Trump is a poopy-head!" and Trump sued me, I would have to prove my claim in court or be subject to paying monetary damages to Trump for besmirching his public reputation.
      November 23, 2016 5:36 PM MST
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  • Interesting and thoughtful post..I do like reading your input. I cannot speak for Europe lol you may have heard we had a somewhat backing away from them and in truth many Brits have never felt they had much in common with Europe mainland anyway :P but in the UK it does still depend on what you say and where and how you say it.. but i think you are right it's tougher here.. You are allowed free speech but it has to be respectful still.. you can express an opinion without being disrespectful and that's fine.. 

    Where it might run you into trouble would be if you were inciting violence or some criminal activity as you mentioned but also if you say something that is false or damaging.. you would probably get away with calling Trump a poopy head here too :P  and a narcissist etc... but if you made a claim such as that he is a rapist, child abuser, has swindled the tax office.. and that wasnt true.. then you could be sued.. there are two kinds.. slander i think is if you say something.. libel is if you write or print it...
      November 24, 2016 8:14 AM MST
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  • 10052
    It's in no way illegal in the US to throw racial slurs at others, if one is doing it on their own time. The only way it violates any laws, is if it's done in the workplace, as there are laws to protect people from discrimination and harassment. That's not to say that there aren't consequences for a person who makes racial slurs, there often are, (one example would be the woman in West Virginia who was recently fired for calling Michelle Obama "an ape in heels"), but it isn't illegal.

      November 23, 2016 5:54 PM MST
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  • It's probably not all that dissimilar here.. you can say what you want among family and friends.. but if you say it TO someone.. i.e.you call someone a racist name then you could be prosecuted..depending on where and whether there were witnesses... You wouldn't say those things in public I think because that would be discriminating and harassment and bullying and a few other things.... it sure wouldnt make the person who said it a nice person... If you did it in the workplace yes you would get fired but it would be unlikely you would get prosecuted as such..

    I have noticed americans, or should i say some Americans,  seem much freeer with the racist language, taunts and rhetoric than we are.. I guess that surprises and shocks me a bit.. 
      November 24, 2016 8:20 AM MST
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  • 34432
    In the USA, racism becomes a crime when a crime is committed....when someone is harmed, or property is damaged. 
      November 23, 2016 7:17 PM MST
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  • 3934
    Unless, of course, law enforcement officers committed the crimes in which case the Nig...er, "thugs" had it coming to them...;-D...

      November 23, 2016 7:24 PM MST
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  • 34432
    If you attack a police officer.....it is not going to end well. 

      November 24, 2016 5:05 AM MST
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  • 691
    It is not a crime to call someone a paki or chink or other. It is not a crime to call them fat either. Why should it be? The idea of it being crime to hurt feelings seems insane to me. There are so many laws already in this country what would the point be of using more of limited resources to try to police verbal insulting? I am more bothered if someone is to smoke near me or wear lots of perfume because my lungs do not handle it well than if someone decides they will call me a paki or some other racial slur, so we can outlaw those things first please? Everyone has sensitivity to something and to go through the world they must deal with that themselves and not expect the rest of world to change for them. There is stopping racism from keeping people out of jobs or homes and then there is going too far where it hurts the people it is intended to protect and we do not need that. I do not want it to be illegal to call me some name until it is illegal to call a white person some name because that means people of my race are weak and need protection.  We do not and we have the best income and outcomes of racial groups in america and beat whites. If my race were to start being protected in so many ways I have doubt it would send a bad message to our children who would feel inferior.
      November 23, 2016 7:34 PM MST
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  • Interesting viewpoint.. the point here, as in in the UK, is that its wrong to harrass anyone.. I am not sure it's always illegal as such, tho depending where and how it was said it can be,  but it would bring fairly universal condemnation.. so it's not about protecting one race so that they seem or feel themselves weak or in need of protection.. but it's about ensuring no one is disadvantaged or has to suffer hatred and bullying.. so the same goes for sexist language, making derogatory comments about disabled people etc.. 

    As you say tho the downside is that as many here have noted.. while you are not allowed, (not necessarily illegal but you would get in trouble ) to say derogatory things that are racist... there is not the same protection for those who make comments against white people..but hey ho.. .
      November 24, 2016 8:27 AM MST
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  • 1326
    When it has poisoned your mind. 
      December 17, 2016 10:01 PM MST
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