Is being a really good liar an asset? Or is being honest and truthful a greater asset? Why?

Hi m'dear. Here is what prompted the question TAW. An Answermugger gave me a very extensive and thoughtful reply to my question about truth being expendable. This is what got me about what she wrote. She said that if a child is not capable of telling convincing lies several times at a day by the age of 4 that child is considered to have a severe mental deficiency by psychologists. She is a trusthworthy person so I expect there are studies that say that. But I am having a really hard time believing it. That means being a good liar early on indicates having a good mind. Does that bother you at all or is it just me? Thank you for your reply and Happy Sunday! :)

I think you have to take it in context ... lying of the white variety is what makes life possible sometimes ... yes your but does look big in that ...

I agree with that m'dear 100%.

I think if you can avoid hurting someone unnecessarily or protect someone from others who wish to do them harm that would be a "good" lie. But I despise liars. You never know where you stand with them. You can never count on them for anything. They make me nervous so I avoid them if I can. Thank you for your thoughtful reply Ozgirl and Happy Sunday! :)

Indeed i would agree LYING  strengthens the mind .  they say   , for every lie you tell  ,  you have to tell at least 3  more to cover it up, .  this takes forethought  ,  imagination  , ingenuity,  quick thinking  , problem solving , etc etc ... all  exercising the brain , and even when caught in a lie  , the result in learning  what is too far fetched  , and what is believable helps you  get better   .   even  learning that adding  a bit of truth  can  boost success  rates 3 fold  .  etc etc . 
countless  mindless  "yes  , i did that " ,  with no sign of self preservation, or care ,  ever  would  indeed  be a warning sign. 

and to expand  on your original question .  both can be an asset   or  not   in context and situation .  This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at November 27, 2016 3:50 AM MST

You scare me m'dear.  Why? Because what you wrote makes so much sense. Here's MY problem. If lying is desirable and mentally "healthy" then truth is irrelevant. Very good liars are our best and brightest. Truth-tellers are to be pitied since they have an intellectual handicap. That upends everything I have always  believed to be true. I despise liars TAW. I do. You never know where you stand with them. I try very hard not to be one of them.  I will stifle it rather than tell a lie. I say what I think and I take a lotta flak for it and I don't give a dam*! It's the price I pay for being honest. For me the most humiliating/embarrassing thing would be for someone to say "Rosie is liar..she lies all the time about everything". I'd far rather get lambasted for telling the truth than be loved/embraced for telling lies. I always knew I was a square peg in a land of round holes. This may be one of the reasons. I do not accept that lying is a good thing. Now I grant you there are certain circumstances in which lying can save someone's life or protect someone from being hurt unnecessarily. Protecting people who are targets by lying is a good lie I think depending upon the person you are protecting. I am very troubled by this. I am not a genius but I have always held my own intellectually and you are telling me that in so doing I have been showing myself to be "less than". Thank you for your reply. I'm still not gonna lie. I don't give a rat's a** if that's the only way to be successful in life. I can't be someone I'm not just because it's the preferred way to be. I don't know if I'm furious or disappointed  or hurt, none of which is your fault of course. It doesn't matter. Thanks for the unvarnished truth my friend. I will be licking my wounds but I won't change. I'll just stay quietly on the sidelines watching and listening to all the really smart people lying their a **es off!   :( ((hugs))

whooh , wait a  sec  .. i surely did not  say you are  "less than " anything  , nor mean to  imply such .  your  example was as a young child  growing up  . etc . are you saying you  never told a lie  ever  in  early childhood?  play pretend ,  etc etc ..  even if that was  the case  .  i merely agreed  lying strengthens the mind  ,  i didnt say   telling the truth makes you  stupid  either  ,  i  just said no sign of fiction  at a young age   would be  a warning sign ,   not a definite  issue . .  this   clearly does not take into account   of exercising the mind in other ways  ,  or even   taking into account that you  may have analyzed the projected outcome and weighed the pros and cons of the lie   and decided  on the truth being   the best result .  etc etc etc  ..  which indeed  would be exercising  the mind in the pretty much . same ways.

and who  knows , maybe i was lying on my first  post  ;-)



This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at November 27, 2016 4:06 AM MST

 If at the age of 4 a child cannot lie convincingly several times a day then he/she is severely mentally deficient according to psychologists. That's what we're talking about and you corroborated it TAW. How else should I take it?  As a kid I was always wanting to please my parents. I was a "good little girl". They could always depend on me to do my best. Did I ever lie? I'm sure I did but it would not be daily and certainly not convincingly.  And then I felt guilty as he** and wondered when they would find out and I literally could not stand it so at some point I figured out lying was too hard on me. I still can't lie well. I have no poker face at all. When I play poker with family/friends and I have a good hand everyone folds. I don't like to lie..never did. So I never did it well. Now if you are talking about fantasy, let's pretend, where everyone knows that's what is going on that would not be a lie. A lie is when you are trying to save your a ** because you KNOW what you did was wrong. Or you lie to get someone in trouble. Or you like to take revenge, engage in retaliation. A lie is never told to implicate yourself but to exonerate yourself and or implicate/harm others. It just annoys the he** outta me that imprimatur is  given to the value of lying well. By psychologists no less! Geez what a revoltin' development THAT is!  :(

I never corroborated on "If at the age of 4 a child cannot lie convincingly several times a day then he/she is severely mentally deficient" .  those words  were not from my post .   i only agreed  lying exercises  the mind . and no sign of fiction at a young age would be a warning sign .

you agreed you  probably   told a few lies at a young age  . thus  my comments  do not pertain to your case .   nor should they   impact it . 

and i certainly did not mean to imply any comments   to be directed at you , i had no idea  you  were  in a round-about way talking about "you". and i certainly did not mean to hurt your feelings in any way   or anger  you  . i  just answered a question  that  seemed to  have no  agenda   , then  got stuck  defending us   both  ;-)

you  know i  luv  ya  . and  you  obviously ain t stooopid  . your  many intellectual posts  on am show  that .  ;-) 

No sweetie I was not angry at you or hurt by you or upset by you. Apologies if I caused you to think that. It's the situation that is so perplexing to me. I'm not looking for compliments either. I know you value our friendship and that I must be contributing something  or you would not be here now wasting your time. I know you're more than smart. I pride myself on surrounding myself with folks who are smarter than I am. Otherwise how would I learn? So there is no problem between thee and me and there never will be. It's just the IDEA of it that is bothering me.  Exercising one's brain and making it intellectually sharper by being a convincing lie teller just rubs me the wrong way. I guess I'm letting emotion get in the way and of course I am personalizing it. Usually I can separate the feelings from the thing itself. I guess I'm unable to do so this time. Anyway I'm having a hard time with notifications that just disappear on me and I haven't got my usual alerts since November 20. Once in awhile a "like" alert comes through but not the answer to the question I asked alert. Sapphic Heart is having some problems too. Are you having any such problems TAW? :) ((hugs))

just remember  lying is only ONE way that exercises the mind . you obviously  used  some of the many other ways  .  ;-)

as for notifications ,  mine seem to still pop  up here  , but  the site did go down tonight for a bit  , and   i  frequently , seem to  have to sign in again  after  changing a  page. ETC... This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at November 27, 2016 4:54 AM MST