We may attend TWO WAKES next year to mourn the passing of Medicare/Social Security. They served us well/deserve better. Don't we as well?

@Glis -- and I could have taken the thousands of dollars I spent on auto insurance since I started driving at age 18 and "put that to better use," too. I have NEVER had an at-fault accident and have not even accrued a moving violation since 1993.

But that's not how Insurance works. Insurance involves a mix of people who get more out of the insurance pool than they pay in, and people who "get screwed." And Social Security is a Social Insurance program.

I know your point.   I don't agree with it.  Auto insurance is to protect other people if you get into an accident.  Plus I see the benefit being piece of mind.  SS for my generation is basically some money JIC you make it pass 70.  Which a lot of people don't.  The reward isn't as valuable IMHO. 
Like I said our return on investment isn't that great compared to other saving options nor do I think people really need government to manage their finances for them, which is really what SS is.   The premise SS was founded on turned out not to be true  and it was meant to be optional and self sustaining.   It didn't turn out that way.

People in your position shouldn't be denied it.  You payed so much in and it's too late for y'all to replan.  I contend it cannot be taken away from y'all.  However there is a part of me that wouldn't mind seeing it phased out either since it's a pretty crummy system and a very authoritarian concept.

@Glis --- "it's a pretty crummy system and a very authoritarian concept. "

Yep, just like roads you never drive on, parks you never visit, ports you never utilize, courthouses you deliberately avoid, energy/waste utilities which don't service you, etc. all of which was paid for by YOUR tax dollars because the "authoritarian" government forced you to.

Your thinking on this sounds like an awful mixture of "I've upped mine...now UP YOURS!" and "If you're old/poor/unlucky....F**K YOU!"

Curious that you call decent civil society "authoritarian"...;-D...

Government managing your money because you know "it knows better than you do and you can't be trusted to do it correctly"  Is absolutely authoritarian.

"Yep, just like roads you never drive on, parks you never visit, ports you never utilize, courthouses you deliberately avoid, energy/waste utilities which don't service you, etc. all of which was paid for by YOUR tax dollars because the "authoritarian" government forced you to."

False.   Those roads, ports are utilized by all and we all benefit equally from them.  You don't need to drive them to be using them.  If you use goods or services then those ports and roads were utilized by you and your needs.  Courthouses are public property that are part of the government function.
Energy and waste is the same as roads and ports as well.


It's apples and oranges.

@Glis -- OK, we're not going to get to a useful state of discussion on this one because you're bending definitions and making non-reality-based claims.

For example:  "Those roads, ports are utilized by all and we all benefit equally from them."

FALSE! ABSOLUTELY FALSE!  I have driven on a TINY FRACTION of the roads my taxpayers dollars have paid for. I have visited a TINY FRACTION of the park facilities my taxpayers dollars have paid for. Anyone who has ever been party to a lawsuit has utilized the court system far more than I have. The examples are legion.

And, yes, sometimes the DABGUM GUBMINT KAN'T DO NUTTIN RIGHT NOHOW does no better than individual people how to spend money for the benefit of all. Do you think a plebiscite democracy where "the people" vote on how every individual government expenditure is allocated would be remotely workable? Of course not.

Now, you are correct that perhaps you could invest the money you contribute to Social Security in some form of retirement account and get a better outcome for you personally. But, as I noted, the same is true if I was allowed to invest all the auto insurance premiums I've given up over the years for no personal benefit.

But your investment skills are irrelevant because social security is not a retirement program. It's social insurance. ANY insurance program has to have a mixture of people who benefit and people who "get screwed." Otherwise, it doesn't work. You can't have an auto insurance pool where only bad drivers who get into lots of accidents are members. Similarly, you can't have a social insurance pool where only poor people who have no money to invest and/or people who are really bad at managing their money are in it. SOMEBODY has to the "screwed over" person who cross-subsidizes the unlucky/unwise.

If that's too "authoritarian" for you, I suggest you start saving for you flight to Somalia...;-D...

SS is absolutely a retirement plan.  That's exactly what is and was meant to be.  I see no reason to assume others inability to save for their retirement with any extra cash they earn is anyone elses problem or duty to correct for them.  However I do believe there needs to social relief systems and welfare for those who don't earn enough money to live.   In that case those who never had enough to save shall remain on the same support systems. When it has to be repeatedly redefined,  it was a lie to begin with.

"
FALSE! ABSOLUTELY FALSE!  I have driven on a TINY FRACTION of the roads my taxpayers dollars have paid for. I have visited a TINY FRACTION of the park facilities my taxpayers dollars have paid for. Anyone who has ever been party to a lawsuit has utilized the court system far more than I have. The examples are legion."

Reread the statement you are arguing.   Those roads benefit you the same whether you drive them the same.   They provide you with commerce.  With available goods when you need them and also the better the infrastructure for delivering them.  The better the cost to you.  Courthouses may not be utilized by you for your own personal lawsuits,  yet they are necessary if you want to have government.   The fair trials of criminals benefits you.   The decisions made in them benefits you. 


To be honest as far as insurance goes.   It's a bad system period and a major form of predatory banking and money making.  So trying to explain how insurance works isn't going to help your defense to me since I don't see very much nobility in the very idea of it. I'm not that passionate about SS, but the fact is it hasn't really worked as it was sold to the public.  When a measure is proposed and adopted and it has to be constantly changed and it's funding % increased or it's optional status repealed.  Well sir,  that system isn't working and wasn't correct.


Ahh the old BS claim that Somalia is a libertarian paradise despite the fact it has nothing to with libertarianism at all.   Still as hilarious as the first time that I heard it from people who have no idea what are trying to define.

Well I'm 79 and my Jim is 81 and we're scared to death. We each have a very modest retirement account which provides us with a few hundred dollars a month to SUPPLEMENT social security. In 2008 I got  cancer and without Medicare I'd be dead. We would have been wiped out financially and I'd still be dead. Medicare pays 80% of medical costs and Kaiser (our supplemental insurance) and we in concert pay the other 20%. You are quite cavalier about this Glis. You are probably quite young or quite wealthy or both. I do not fault you for that. We each travel different paths in life. I have shared our path with you. Whether it makes any difference to you or not is irrelevant. Thank you for your reply Glis and Happy Wednesday. This post was edited by RosieG at November 30, 2016 1:33 PM MST

Please don't mistake what I'm saying.  I think it would be horrible and totally immoral to just take away your SS you worked so hard to put into and now need.  That's not what I'm saying at all.   What I am saying is if it was phased out for future generations I wouldn't necessarily care or see that as purely bad.   Medicare and Medicad are different animals in my mind and very necessary and benficial/successful.   Those I would feel much more passionate about.


Depends on how feel about young.  Two more months of being 36 so.  The deal our genrations is gonna get out of SS isn't as sweet as it was for the previous ones.  So naturally there is gonna be a difference of opinion.   If you think I'm wealthy/rich, or ever have been?   You couldn't be more wrong about that.  I might barely qualify for low middle class.  If that even.  Wealth is something I know nothing about or have ever experienced personally. At least financial wealth.

Thank you for a very thoughtful, kind and informative reply Glis. I appreciate it. I'm not used to being frightened m'dear. I'm not. But with PET and his ideas and the people with whom he  is surrounding himself we are terrified. What is there to prevent them from going with Paul  Ryan's plan and privatizing/vouchering? Even if PET rejects it his veto can be overridden by a 2/3 vote in both House and Senate and since the Republicans are in the majority I have little hope that any of them would go against  Ryan. But I do appreciate your thoughtfulness. At 36 you are grandchild material for me. You have a long row to hoe before you retire and I wish you good luck and smooth sailing. SIGH. Whatever is gonna happen will happen. We shall know better after awhile. Right now? We don't KNOW a dam* thing.:(

Aye  I do have a long way top go and I thank you for your best wishes.

I fully understand those concerns and acknowledge their validity.  It isn't that I'm not scared of what is to come or have concern about it.  I believe it's more that for many in my generation we have become so used to being scared and let down that we are a little numb to it. I think my generation somewhat expects it and internalizes it more.  If that makes any sense.  Like our hopes and outlook ( for many) wasn't as high to begin with.  I know many older generations see mine as being sarcastic, apathetic, cynical, etc.. This is kinda true,  but it's a reaction of the hand we have been dealt and how this generation learned to cope. Defense mechanisms to allow us to be able to enjoy life and what we do have.

Early on I did not like you very much. I know the sentiment was reciprocated. Now? Different ballgame entirely. At least it is for me. Thank you for taking the time to share such thoughtful comments. I appreciate it. Not everyone is willing to give time to that and I very much value and appreciate those who do! So thank you Glis! :)

When illness strikes and insurance doesn't cover it people can be wiped out Spunky. There is no saving/planning for  the cost of catastrophic illness.  It happened to my sister and brother-in-law. He was retired and drawing social security. She was still working. Neither of them qualified for Medicare because they weren't old enough. My brother-in-law had to have a quintuple by-pass and since then his health has been precarious. Something will flare up and he goes to the hospital and they take care of it and there are always expensive meds prescribed. They got so behind the financial 8-ball from that.They had modest  savings. They live in a trailer park in Carson City, Nevada. They did not live an extravagant life. Just recently he had another setback. They are still paying off the bills from the many years ago quintuple bypass and something new showed up. An expensive something. They are always expensive.  Putting them further behind. They have Medicare and supplemental insurance now and both are retired but it isn't retroactive so they will continue paying off the bills until they die I expect. And the bills will continue to get higher unless some miracle occurs and he stops having setbacks. They are not unique. There are probably millions of families who have been devastated by the medical costs of keeping a loved one alive. And so it goes. Just thought I'd put my two cents' worth in. I know this reply was directed to Glis so please forgive the intrusion. Happy Thursday. This post was edited by RosieG at December 1, 2016 3:20 AM MST

Any public comment I make is open to rebuttal, so no intrusion here and no apology needed.  :)

Yes, I understand how that could happen and probably happens more often than we know.  I have insurance through my employer so when I reached my deductible, I was home free for the most part.  I agree that health care should be within everyone's reach whether it be ACA, Medicare (if you're old enough) or private insurance and I know how easy it is to have your life savings wiped out with just one illness.  I hope your brother-in-law feels better and will enjoy good health.