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CallMeIshmael

The philosopher Nietzsche said, "That which does not kill us makes us stronger" Do you believe that?.

I think too much hardship can wear us out, break our spirit, or disable us sometimes.

Posted - December 6, 2016
Tags : Philosophy Nietzsche

Responses


  • We all vary in our resilience, depending on temperament, basic attitude, how well we deal with emotions and problem solving, how skilled we are in survival strategies and how toughened we are by experience.

    Victor Frankl, in "Man's Search for Meaning," describes life as the inmate of a Nazi concentration camp, seeing who lived and who died, and noticing the differences between them. Many died from despair and resignation. He saw the moment of the change. Of those not sent to the gas ovens, the ones who survived were the ones with a sense of meaning or purpose, a reason to continue living. This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at December 7, 2016 7:57 PM MST
      December 6, 2016 10:51 PM MST
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  • 7939
    I second what Hartfire said, but I'll add that it probably has more to do with willpower. There is a ton of research on willpower and we each have a certain amount. The Stanford marshmallow test was a fun one that followed kids through school... preschoolers were entrusted with marshmallows... those who had the willpower to wait to eat theirs did better in school over the years and were more productive. That willpower or ability to wait for gratification was ingrained in the kids when they were very young and stuck with them through life. So, the ability to deal with life stress and "be stronger" is really an inborn trait.

    Some scientists speculate that you can train yourself to build up stamina, but it's not easy. People can also "hack" themselves for success. Certain things do reduce our capacity for willpower, such as our circadian rhythms... your willpower reduces as the day goes on. You'll have less if you're tired or sick or whatever. So, to "hack" your body for success, you'd have to be as well as possible and tackle the things that wear you out when your willpower is strongest- in the earlier hours of your day.
      December 6, 2016 11:07 PM MST
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  • I know of the marshmallow research - ability at age four to wait for 20 minutes proved to be an accurate predictor. However the research did not explore the family environment and early training of the 4-yr-olds. I would wager a bet that the ability to wait was conditioned between 18 months and 3 years during the phase of learning "no" - but it could go even earlier. As a baby, my mother followed the German method of feeding by the clock. It taught me very early on that saying crying (asking) was useless. I was trained to obedience so early that I very rarely ever challenged it (twice.)

    If you have any of the reference to circadian rhythms and willpower, I'd be very interested to read that stuff. This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at December 7, 2016 9:01 AM MST
      December 7, 2016 12:59 AM MST
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  • 7939

    Here's a link:
    http://jamesclear.com/willpower-decision-fatigue
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-science-willpower/200910/in-defense-good-nights-sleep     

    I suppose we'd have to look at bigger sample sizes to determine if it's a natural or learned characteristic. I know with my own kids, they are the opposite of what you suggest. My oldest, who was largely scheduled, doesn't have vast amounts of willpower. He never did... He was far more prone to meltdowns over homework and was more likely to try to find a sneaky way around waiting for something- i.e. steal cookies when I wasn't looking, hack the device that limited his video game time. My middle child and youngest were wholly unscheduled and attachment parented. They fed on demand, even if that meant I nursed them every 30 minutes, though there were obviously times where one would have to wait for one reason or another. My middle and youngest do fairly well with delayed gratification. My straight-A 8-year-old recently brought home an extra credit packet during the holiday weekend. When I asked her why, she said she didn't want to lose the #1 spot in class. I suppose I could argue that ensuring a child's needs and wants are met at an early age inspires confidence in them; that they know they will always get what they require, even if they do have to wait for it sometimes, whereas the "trained" child doesn't learn that waiting pays off... he or she learns that waiting serves no benefit i.e. that marshmallow in front of them is never really going to be theirs, so why bother to wait? Grab it quick while the teacher isn't looking. Babies don't understand clocks... they just know they're hungry and mom says no.

     

    Eh... that is neither here nor there, I guess. Even if we did have a bigger sample size (and yes, a question is coming lol) the fact that parenting style may relate to a child's willpower doesn't necessarily mean one causes the other. It could be that the parents with more willpower are more prone to scheduling (or vice versa) and that they also pass down their super-powered willpower genes. Hmm... Curious, eh?

      December 7, 2016 9:27 AM MST
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  • I like the way you think.
    I can't think of any way of setting up experiments to test the variables that would be ethical.
    Perhaps the only way to study it would be to select a large number of will participants for longitudinal studies from birth, which would include bracketing parenting styles, and then compare the results for discipline versus empathic bonding against the levels of capacity for delayed gratification.
      December 8, 2016 1:31 AM MST
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  • 3934
    Nope.

    Just ask any PTSD or clinical depression sufferer how much "stronger" hardship makes them.
      December 6, 2016 11:12 PM MST
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  • Not much to add to that School.
      December 7, 2016 12:12 AM MST
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  • No, because bread does not make me stronger
    Pillows do not make me stronger
    Table cloths do not make me stronger
    My corn does not make me stronger
    My clothes do not make me stronger
    Your cat does not make me stronger
    The neighbor's smelly garbage does not make me stronger
    Pancakes don't make me stronger
    Rivers do not make me stronger
    Donald Trump does not make me stronger
    ................................spinach does

    The Oscars thanks oscars thank you bow
      December 6, 2016 11:19 PM MST
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  • Nietzsche lived when psychology was in its infancy. For all that, his mind was brilliant, and his perceptions were ahead of his time. A man who could conceive of the abyss looking back at us is certainly capable of understanding the complexities of the mind even without access to the libraries full of information that accumulated in the century following his death.

    But "that which does not kill us makes us stronger" is perhaps just a clever catch phrase, an epigram, even an embryonic sound bite. Clearly we all react to adversity -- physical, emotional, or economic -- according to our background and strength of character. A strong person may well be made even stronger; a less able person may be destroyed. This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at December 7, 2016 8:01 PM MST
      December 7, 2016 12:07 AM MST
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  • 3934
    @Didge - I must strongly disagree with your first paragraph.

    Nietzsche most likely knew what PTSD was. People have been sufferering PTSD since there has been human trauma. He almost certainly didn't think of it as PTSD because nobody did in his day. In WWII, when British bomber crews were overwhelmed by the horrific losses they suffered and displayed symptoms of PTSD, RAF commanders declared them "morally unfit", deprived them of rank, and gave them menial janitorial tasks in an attempt to shame them into "getting better." I suspect Nietzche had an equally uninformed view of how traumatic stress affects the human mind.

    I don't know much about Nietzche's philosophical musings, but he almost certainly had very little psychological insight. It is difficult to explain to lay people just how differently the brain works than our subjective intuitions lead us to believe, and how modern our understanding of neural functions is. No amount of "looking at the abyss looking back at us" would have given Nietzche significant psychological knowledge.
      December 7, 2016 12:31 AM MST
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  • I apparently edited this while you while typing your excellent response. (Sorry.) I was just tidying it up a bit.

    The way we treated our servicemen during the two world wars, and before that, was shameful by modern standards but was partly down to ignorance and partly intolerance. My father was wounded (in the leg) by shrapnel in WWI and a little later was blinded in one eye during a mustard gas attack. In neither case did he get his wounds treated. He claimed that there were "too many malingerers" at the RAP trying to get out of fighting. His own intolerance kept him getting help. That intolerance was widespread.

    I mentioned the abyss because it's a pretty good insight into how an obsessive mind can become distorted.I don't think the "makes you stronger" adage has very much validity.

    If you comment further you may have to wait till tomorrow for a response. I'm going off line for a while. :)
      December 7, 2016 12:48 AM MST
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  • 44608
    So I can get stronger by not lifting weights?
      December 7, 2016 8:02 AM MST
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