Nothing last forever and everything breaks. Wear and tare is inevitable and either a joint snaps or a material becomes fatigued. Much of the time the failure is premature from a lack of maintenance and misuse by previous owners in the case of homes.
That said todays goods are often made using the minimal amount of the weakest usable material and fit and finish is often lacking. Combine that with rise of "sealed units" that are touted as "maintenance free", well things are made to be disposable. Reality is they just removed the ability to maintain them or are made out of materials that are likely to fail before a lack of it comes into play. Sure part of it is corporate greed but the other equally large part of that is the lazy consumer who has lost desire to perform upkeep on things and just prefers buying a new one instead of picking up a screwdriver and some parts. No one wants to admit it, but part of it is on the modern consumer base who is too lazy to fix anything and really doesn't want to. Modern consumers aren't really interested in quality and having something for years and years. They want to buy new ones to show off. Sure the big corporations like being able to increase their sales volume and profits, but fact is they are just benefiting from what the apathetic consumer base wants. We complain about shoddy work and products not lasting, but few are willing to pay for quality these days at the same time. There's a two way street.
Right, let's blame consumers for the fact buying a new factory-made-using-global-supply-chains widget is cheaper than taking a 5-year-old widget to a local small repair business.
I'm not just blaming the consumer but having been working in repair for so long I've seen this fact. The long term costs doesn't effect the decision with many people. All I'm saying is that it's not just one sided. Todays culture likes buying new instead of putting any money or time into old. That's a fact.
Blame exist on both sides. Consumers create demand and that gives them some power but todays consumers don't really accept that or want to use it. Why do you think pl;aces like Harbor Freight are so successful? So many people rather just buy crappy tools they can replace than spend money on quality tools often times. Sometimes the cheaper tools are fine for the consumers limited application so there is that. Sears sold Craftsman to Stanley recently. I can't help but notice the Craftsman line started becoming less profitable for them at the same time cheap Chinese knock off tools became readily available. Harbor Freight killed it for them. Craftsman long sold quality tools at a fraction of the price of say Snap-on and Mac. Yet once they could save a few pennies at Harbor Freight for vastly lower quality tools they ditched Craftsman.
No one is of total blame. We the consumers also started demanding lower prices and were willing to accept lower quality for it. Blaming the consumer for it all isn't the same as saying the consumers are PARTIALLY to blame. What's your solution? I'm going to use a little conjecture here, but I've noticed a large segment who wants to put all the blame on the issue you stated but in the same breath acts like putting tariffs on those goods is insanity.
This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at January 7, 2017 11:29 AM MST
@Glis -- While import tariffs are probably not the answer (although they might be ***part*** of the answer), we are stuck at the intersection of several macroeconomic realities:
1) Mass production is almost ALWAYS cheaper/more efficient than small-scale craft production
2) As a global society, we MASSIVELY cross-subsidize the things which make global supply chains/mass production possible
3) In mature markets (e.g the United States), most people have pretty much what they need, so manufacturers/retailers have to innovate (or appear to innovate) to create market demand
4) History shows (esp. in a society with increasing wealth inequality) price always wins. Wal-Mart became the world's largest retailer by selling the same s**t others sell for $3 for $2.97, then $2.94, then by demaning the producer cut costs so Wal-Mart can sell it for $2.85, then demanding more cost cuts so Wal-Mart can sell it for $2.79.
Blaming consumers for acting rationally (e.g. buying a new microwave oven for $30 instead of repairing the old one for $50) in a world they do not control strikes me as counter-productive.
Fixing the problem would require MASSIVE realignment of our global economy, basically making people pay directly the full price of all the currently-socialized cross-subsidies. Harbor Freight wouldn't buy cheap made-in-China hand tools if the full transportation/energy/environmental costs of those tools were included in the price.
So create artificial mechanisms to force a business or person to consider your best interests? Does not compute.
") History shows (esp. in a society with increasing wealth inequality) price always wins. Wal-Mart became the world's largest retailer by selling the same s**t others sell for $3 for $2.97, then $2.94, then by demaning the producer cut costs so Wal-Mart can sell it for $2.85, then demanding more cost cuts so Wal-Mart can sell it for $2.79."
Which proves my point that the ignorance of the consumer is also part of the blame. Thank you for making my point.
It's consumer preference for having all the "things" with no concern for reliabilty, quality, craftsmanship, maintaining, or repairablilty over having a few needed "things" that will last and be cheaper in the long run. The consumer base has power as they are the source of demand, if they demand, business will follow. History has also shown that to be true. People rather watch football and have no interaction though. Rather just take the lazy and passive way out of " make money grabs and redistribute. Property is theft. Your business is our business. Savings are evil. If you are able to have it, than I should be given one too.
Harbor Freight wouldn't be importing shoddy made inferior tools if that wasn't what consumers wanted.
Again, I work doing repairs and anyone who is quickly notices how little maintenance and repairs people are willing to put into something these days in America. When it comes to big ticket goods, maintenance and repair will save you money, but people don't like being bothered and have little qualm just letting it rot until they can buy a new shiny toy. People are more concerned with showing off their new than saving on their old. Hell many people can't even be bothered to change their oil, tranny fluid, or flush their cooling systems on their cars on time. Something that saves thousands of dollars in short time but many find too much bother. So what has the market done in response? Well if they aren't doing the it, why put the drains and access points in them? Americans and the West wants bells and whistles, not quality and toughness. They rather have push buttons and onboard wifi instead of a good engine and drivetrain. Rather have faulty HDTV instead of reliable and proven CRT.
This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at January 7, 2017 12:20 PM MST
@Glis -- You still haven't answered the question of WHY a consumer who can buy a new microwave for $30 should pay $50 to repair the existing one, or why he/she should pay $250 to have a TV repaired when a new one costs $199.
I also think your background as a repair technician has given you a skewed perspective about how much the Average Joe/Jane knows about repair/maintenance of technology.
Consider the oil change. If I'm the average person I have to spend $15-$20 in parts, buy a jack, buy jackstands, find a level surface to do the work, crawl under the car to do the work, capture/store/dispose of the old oil (which is considered a hazardous waste), and then clean up afterwards.
Why would Joe/Jane Average bother when they can sit in the waiting room at Quik-E-Lube and surf the Internet on their smart phones, while the grease monkeys to the work for $29.95?
If you already have the tools, resources, and knowledge to do maintenance/repair, by all means take advantage. But expecting every consumer to have your investment in those things is foolhardy.
This post was edited by OldSchoolTheSKOSlives at January 7, 2017 12:42 PM MST
You make a good point but miss the mark on that. My point is that many, many people are too bothered to even go spend that $29 dollars at the right intervals and most completely ignore tranny fluid and coolant all together. I can't tell you how many people think recommending it is an attempt to scam them because they never even heard of such a thing as being a part of it. See it often, cars coming in for oil changes 2000 miles past the mark. Some even worse.
Another valid point to squash your assumption. So you need to buy a strap wrench, a few box wrenches, and an old milk jug to capture the oil for drop off the next time you gas up( oh the hassle). They then have to spend 30min on a day off. Well those tools pay for themselves and aren't consumables. They can be used to save on other things and on future changes. Yet most people are too lazy and want too many bells and whistles to spend $50 now to save hundreds in the end.
I did address the microwave of you cared to take in what was said in an objective manner. They don't want to save and pay for the quality made and serviceable models. They don't want to pay $400 for the one that will last longer and in 10 years need a little work. they rather buy the $130 dollar model 5 times in the same time period. HDTVs aren't fixable really at all, because people rather have the bells and whistle model over the CRT model that could be fixed. Your quotes for repair costs are pretty inflated to benefit your point but you do still have one. It's worth noting though the public started abandoning repair first. Less desire to repair, leads to less volume for repairmen, less volume is taken over by higher prices for the few who still patronize the service. People started choosing the prestige and image of having enough disposable income to buy new and the market changed.
The consumer base is not without fault or recourse. The blame isn't all on us consumers, but to deny that some of it is isn't being honest either. But then again, We're all just victims, poor little victims of the big bad men we happily hand our money over to for crap we don't need.
( What's even better than taking back used oil? Use those tools to make a nifty used oil burner to heat the garage. Made of win!.)
Part of that is also because you chose to buy the cheaper made and inferior widget in the first place. If you bought the expensive well made one from the smaller struggling producer it prolly would have lasted longer than 5 years and been worth fixing it.
Correct and, one of these days, my 40-year old, 27" Zenith TV, which has never been serviced or repaired, will stop working and I'll have to replace it. Bummer. :)
WM BARR . =ABSOLUTE TRASH 