Discussion » Questions » Human Behavior » Why do some people have to believe every crazy idea?

Why do some people have to believe every crazy idea?

What I mean is, why do the people who are racists also have to be the ones who deny climate change, not want gun control (assuming they are American), oppose nationalised health care, (again, assuming they are American), etcetera. Can't they just believe in some of these ideas, instead of every single one?

Posted - September 22, 2017

Responses


  • 46117
    Where?  WHERE ARE THEY?

    I need to sell something.

      September 22, 2017 10:09 AM MDT
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  • 6023
    Gun control and healthcare are most likely linked to a "hard line" belief in personal rights and responsibilities.

    Racism is generally due to lack of education ... which would also explain why they don't believe the science of climate change.

    However, the first is not linked to the second, as there are many educated people who are not racist and who do believe in climate change - but also believe in "gun rights" and oppose nationalized health care.

    As far as nationalized health care goes, the opposition has good points.  Especially trying to build something from scratch ... the closest thing America has to a "working prototype" is the VA, which is a "hit or miss" system.  Plus, Americans don't want to pay the high taxes that are required for a national, single-payer system.
      September 22, 2017 10:13 AM MDT
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  • 46117
    This is darned good, Walter.  Why did I think you were going to be outrageous and right-winged?
      September 22, 2017 11:21 AM MDT
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  • 6023
    Hey, what can I say?  I'm an independent thinker with libertarian leanings ... if I were on the D&D Alignment grid, I would be chaotic good.
      September 22, 2017 12:45 PM MDT
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  • 46117
    Oh that's what it was.  I am deeply distrustful of libertarian thought.

    Ok.  I like you now anyway. 
      September 22, 2017 12:46 PM MDT
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  • 6023

    From just my personal perspective:

    The hardest part of libertarian thought is it doesn't fit either the "right" or "left" ... "conservative" or "liberal" ... mold.
    Because it focuses mainly on personal rights.
    So you get some conservative ideals ... but also liberal ideals, because personal rights aren't limited by someone's religious morals.

    EG:
    Gun ownership (conservative) = yes
    Abortion (liberal) = yes
    LGBT equality (liberal) = yes
    Prostitution (neither) = yes, because it IS our bodies
    homosexual marriage (liberal) = yes
    plural marriage (neither) = sure, why not?  who says multiple people can't love each other that deeply?
    military (conservative) = not so much.  Why?  Because we (nation) use it to intimidate others ... which infringes on their personal liberty.

      September 22, 2017 1:49 PM MDT
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  • 739
    I agree, libertarian thought should be neither right nor left wing, though you have a Libertarian party in the USA, and they seem to be a right-wing corruption of the idea, as far as I can see. What is your opinion of them?
      September 25, 2017 8:37 AM MDT
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  • 46117
    Try and give me an example of what a LIBERTARIAN is.  Try. 

    Because it means nothing.   Just like being a Democrat or Republican.  It means whatever you think you want it to mean.  Or a conservative.  Or a ..... these terms are no longer effective because they are filled with contradictions that always confuse everybody.

    I am a free-thinker. I am NO Libertarian.
      September 25, 2017 8:41 AM MDT
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  • 739
    Sounds like the party turned you off the idea.
      September 25, 2017 8:49 AM MDT
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  • 46117
    Uh what party is that?

    I think they are  a bunch of screwballs with no practical, solid ideas.  They seem to be living in some alternate reality.  
      September 25, 2017 9:14 AM MDT
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  • 739
    Building a nationalised health care system from scratch is difficult, indeed, though I think paying taxes, versus paying private insurance costs, I would question which is the highest. As Barack Obama says of gun control, just because it's difficult, doesn't mean you don't do it.
      September 25, 2017 8:43 AM MDT
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  • 44236
    Because they are crazy.
      September 22, 2017 10:16 AM MDT
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  • 46117
    Well, there is THAT.

      September 22, 2017 11:22 AM MDT
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  • 739
    No, they are just frightened. Change frightens them, especially when it happens quickly.
      September 25, 2017 8:33 AM MDT
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  • 7919
    Well, for starters, there was once a time when people who thought the world was round were crazy. People often considered great thinkers like da Vinci, Einstein, and Edison to be crazy. They had bizarre thoughts that few people of their time really appreciated. Now? Not so much. We consider them to be geniuses who were ahead of their time. 

    So, who's to say that your crazy thinkers with all kinds of bizarre beliefs really are nuts? Maybe they know something you don't. 

    The other thing is that many concepts are closely interlinked. If I favor socialist philosophies, I'm going to like socialized medicine, dental care, education, and more. If I'm a libertarian, I'm going to oppose all those things and will probably be against most government involvement, simply because I value personal responsibility and want minimal government involvement. There are all sorts of core philosophies such as this that we base everything around. 

    At a glance, I couldn't think of a link between climate change and gun control/ socialized medicine. Not wanting gun control or socialized medicine is obvious- the libertarian would want to limit the government's involvement. So, I poked around to see what libertarians are saying about climate change. Here's a link if you're interested. https://niskanencenter.org/blog/libertarian-principles-climate-change/ The gist is, they feel that there's not enough evidence to prove it, and without substantial evidence, no changes should be made. But, I think the real kicker here is that, if they acknowledge climate change, they're basically giving the government an opportunity to stick its hands into something else, with all the trappings that comes with. Sure, it sounds "crazy," to some, but the link as to why they would deny becomes a little clearer when you start to follow the thought process. You don't have to agree with it, but if any issue can be boiled down to government versus autonomy, the true libertarian will always go with autonomy. And, the true socialist will gladly accept more government oversight if it means "betterment" for the people overall. 

    I actually had several lengthy discussions with a libertarian once, and he claimed that basically every socialist policy was harming society as a whole because it made people more dependent on the government.  He firmly believed that if the government just stepped out of everything, everyday people would jump in and fill the gaps that were left. i.e. The homeless wouldn't need shelters because people would have charity and open their homes to them or donate money to run private shelters. Government food programs would be unnecessary because people would donate, and those who really could work would go back to work. That's why I put "betterment" in quotes. The socialist sees government services as necessary and helpful, while the libertarian will see them as harmful. We see these debates played out every day, but not necessarily by folks who fit into perfect philosophical slots. When we talk about welfare in America, many people think it's great and services should be expanded to help those in need. Others want reform and cuts, to ensure that the services can't be abused. Others want them gone. And, there are shades of gray between them all. Your example involves the polarization of beliefs. Nothing more. And, they only sound crazy to you because you don't share their core philosophies. 

    To be blunt, it's always worth a listen, even if you disagree. You can't find common ground or inspire change if you don't ever open up a free-flowing non-accusatory dialogue about why they feel the way they do. There is evidence that backs up libertarian beliefs. It's not sufficient for me, but that doesn't make those folks crazy or their thoughts crazy. The truth is always somewhere in the middle anyway.
      September 22, 2017 11:26 AM MDT
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  • 739
    Great answer, JA! I had been thinking of posting a question like this for some time, and held off because I thought it might sound like I was just having a poke at some people, but in the end, I decided to post it, and see what sort of answers I got. I know there are many people who might hold some of the beliefs I mentioned, but not others, but there seem to be many who hold every kind of "bury their heads in the sand" belief all at once, and they seem to be the hardest to reason with.
    As for people who believe in something years before it is widely accepted, Svante Arrherius realised climate change was happening in 1898! I will put in a link:
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2005/jun/30/climatechange.climatechangeenvironment2
    Personally, I don't hold socialist views, but I see it as the states responsibility to provide health care, protect people from guns by denying the purchase or ownership of them by irresponsible people who have no valid reason to own one...
    Let me back up just a little bit and make a point here. The latter is a perfect example of the people who you just can't reason with I mentioned earlier. I have argued at great length, both here and on EP, with American gun advocates. Their version of things is that their guns protect them, and Britain passed a gun control law in 1987, after which they took our guns away, and we are now defenceless against a rising tide of gun and violent crime. This is , quite simply, untrue in pretty much every particular. The principal piece of gun control legislation in my country was the 1968 act, which established that self-defence is not a legally valid reason to own a gun, our legal gun ownership, within the strict laws we have, is higher than it has ever been (which does not worry me in the slightest) and our gun and violent crime figures have fallen year on year, with only the occasional blip in the other direction. I might add that none of the websites these gun advocates get their information from allow you to post a rebuttal!
    As to your point about the libertarian belief that the government is not the best to provide social programmes, and that ordinary people will step in to fill the gaps, I have worked in the social enterprise sector myself, and I believe it is the best way to provide most of these services. Anyway, there are many things the goverment just do not provide, and leave it to social enterprises to fill the gaps, and that was the case when Labour was in power, before the Conservatives cuts; indeed, Labour cut a lot of funding to social firms, which, unlike social enterprises, rely on an element of government funding, rather than generating profit themselves and putting it towards the social aims of the company.
    One last point here. Most people have a mixture of beliefs, some of which could be considered right-wing, and others left-wing. What I was trying to explore with the question was why some people seem to be stuck wholly one way or the other, and expect everyone else to be the same. Maybe one day I will figure out a better way to phrase the question, and have another go. This one was, admittedly, in need of improvement.
      September 25, 2017 8:28 AM MDT
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  • 7775
    Because they have nothing else whatsoever to believe in.
      September 22, 2017 2:12 PM MDT
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  • 17414
    Did you forget your meds today? 
      September 22, 2017 6:10 PM MDT
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  • 739
    Now, now, Thriftymaid, no need to be rude! See my answer to JA, above.
      September 25, 2017 8:31 AM MDT
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  • 46117
    That's an attack.

    REPORTED.

    (JOKE)
      September 25, 2017 9:15 AM MDT
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  • 17414
      September 25, 2017 8:45 PM MDT
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  • 2500

    It's a British thing. Probably because the people of Great Britain have been subjugated for so long and they're so used to "Royalty" telling them what to do that they just don't know any better, can't think for themselves. This post was edited by Salt and Red Pepper at September 25, 2017 10:09 AM MDT
      September 25, 2017 10:05 AM MDT
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  • 739
    I'm not subjugated by anyone. The monarchy has no power to tell us what to do. You support Trump, which says all we need to know about you. How does your answer relate to the question? This post was edited by HarryDemon at September 29, 2017 8:22 AM MDT
      September 29, 2017 8:20 AM MDT
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