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Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » A lie or the truth? Palestinians don't want a state of Israel anywhere? Flipflop. Does Israel DENY Palestinians their own land anywhere?
RosieG

A lie or the truth? Palestinians don't want a state of Israel anywhere? Flipflop. Does Israel DENY Palestinians their own land anywhere?

If the denials of rights are on both sides they are both guilty of greed and hate and selfish and there is NO GOOD GUY here despite the views of outsiders.

Posted - May 15, 2018
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  • 32663
    The Arabs their voted for their own government and voted for a terrrorist group who has in their charter that Israel cannot be allowed to exist. 
    What does that sound like to you? 
    Israel has offered land more than once. Offered the "2 state solution" more than once. They got attacked. ISRAEL won....wars have consequences.  Israel expanded their lands. 
    If the Arabs in Gaza want to live in peace all they have to do is do it. Stop attacking Israel, stop electing terrorists etc. 
      May 15, 2018 8:42 AM MDT
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  • 258
    This comment is not meant to be critical, and if taken as such, I would regret that: 

    I have seen a defense of Israel many times along the following lines:
    "Israel has many times offered land for peace."
    Yet, when pundits defending Israel while invited onto TV Discussion say that, they typically receive short-shrift by pro-Palestinian Arab presenters. What that means in practice is that I have noticed the presenter cuts the pundit short, speaks over them, and then provides significantly more time to the pro-Palestinian Arab pundit(s).
    Why?
    In my view it is because the pro-Palestinian presenter has already accepted falsehood-propaganda that runs something like: Jews have no roots in the land of Israel; the Jews invaded and stole it from "poor Palestinians". Thus, when the presenter hears someone defend Israel by saying Israel has many times offered land for peace, the presenter believes that to be a policy of attempting to: "hold on to ill-gotten-gains".
    Therefore in my personal view, pundits rightly seeking to defend Israel need to make clear at outset that the Jewish people are an ethnicity as well as a religion, with roots within their ancestral homeland of Israel that are an unbroken presence going back to Biblical times, and who have also had previous (indigenous) sovereign states there, e.g. the post-Biblical Hasmonean Kingdom. That by comparison there has never been any indigenous "Palestine" / Arab sovereign state in the land of Israel. Although the Arabs want ALL the land, yet they have no claims to any part of it verifiable from any objective historical sources. The Arabs have rejected two attempts at a two-state solution: i) The United Nations Partition Plan 1947 under resolution 181, and ii) later they continued terrorism, firing rockets, and continued to falsely-claim all the land following the Oslo Accords 1993 to 1995.

    This post was edited by Robert at May 31, 2021 9:02 PM MDT
      May 31, 2021 4:51 PM MDT
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  • 258
    Contributor "RosieG" wrote: "Does Israel DENY Palestinians their own land anywhere? [...]"

    To those words, the answer is no, since had it been otherwise Israel would not have granted the Palestinian Arabs autonomy under the Oslo Accords, Accords that had the Palestinian Arabs honored, could have led to statehood:
    https://www.acpr.org.il/English/documents-e.htm
    Instead, after tricking Israel into those Accords the Palestinian Arabs continued with: Claiming ALL the land (to none of which do they have any verifiable claim), and in conducting a war of terrorism, and ethnic hatred against Israeli Jews including children.

    If a “Palestinian” Arab terrorist murders an Israeli Jew and the terrorist is imprisoned by Israel, the “Palestinian Authority” aka “Fatah” and the “Palestinian Liberation Organisation” (the P.A. funded by the “European Union” and the U.S.A.), pay a reward-“pension” to the family of the attacker under the "Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund": 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Authority_Martyrs_Fund

    The “Palestinian” Arabs cynically whitewash their anti-Jewish hate-war as:
    “uprising”, “defence”, “desperation”, “struggle”, “resistance”.

    Example from the “Palestinian” Arab on-going anti-Jewish hate-war, where their propaganda typically refers to any consequential security measures as “Israeli-oppression”:

     - - - - Start of extract: - - - -

     

    “23 August 2019 ... Israeli girl ... Rina Shnerb [age 17 was killed; she] had been hiking with her brother Dvir and her father Eitan near a natural spring outside Dolev when an improvised explosive device blew up.”

     

    Extract source:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49447035

     

    - - - - End of extract - - - -



    The "Palestinian" Arabs could “upgrade” their autonomous status by concluding a peace treaty with Israel, but they have this “little-difficulty” namely, that they seek the destruction of Israel, want ALL the land of Israel, and the expulsion or murder of all its Jews.
    This is clear from their ongoing terrorism, and from what is taught by the Palestinian education system and from the “Palestinian National Charter”.


    Palestinian education system practices mind-abuse, teaching: False victim-mentality, hatred of Jews, that Israel does not exist (aka Palestinian false-claim to ALL the land):
    https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-examples-of-anti-Israel-or-anti-peace-attitude-in-the-Palestinian-educational-system


    The “Palestinian National Charter” seeks the expulsion of the Jewish people from the Jews ancestral homeland of Israel:
    https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/plocov.asp

    The name “Palestine” was used by the Romans to attempt to negate Israel / Judah as names for the land. Today the “Palestinian” Arabs and their primarily anti-Semitic supporters, use the name “Palestine” for the same purpose. There has never been an indigenous “Palestine” / Arab sovereign state in the land of Israel upon which the “Palestinian” Arabs could base any claim to any part of Israel. The name “Palestine” is the Roman-imposed rename of Israel / Judah, a name later resurrected for the British Mandate. Both Roman and British powers were foreign imperial rule.
    The only valid-name for the land belongs to the Jewish-indigenous sovereign states before the Re-establishment of Israel in 1948, which are “Israel” or “Judah”.


    The assertions made by contributor "RosieG" imply that it would be wrong to examine the claims made by each side on the land; not at all. The Jews (Jew=citizen of Judah - Judaism is both an ethnicity as well as a religion) have unbroken presence in their ancestral homeland of Israel since Biblical times (below) and have had previous (indigenous) sovereign states there (example below). By comparison, the Palestinian Arabs mostly originate from Foreign-Arab-Migrant-Workers who arrived in the land just prior to, and during the British Mandate (below), and there has never been any indigenous "Palestine" / Arab sovereign state in the land of Israel upon which the Arabs could base any claim, to any part of the land.

    Brief historical background:

     

    Using “Palestine” to negate the name Israel for the land is misleading, as there has never been any indigenous sovereign state of “Palestine”. The only valid name for the land belongs to the Jewish indigenous sovereign states before the Re-establishment of Israel in 1948: “Israel” or “Judah”.

     

    The Jewish people are the indigenous people of their ancestral homeland of Israel with unbroken presence there since Biblical times:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region)

     

    Israel is Re-established within the Jewish ancestral homeland. Internationally-recognized history shows that the last indigenous sovereign state in the land of Israel (Roman-imposed name “Palestine”), prior to the RE-establishment of Israel in 1948, was the post-Biblical Jewish Hasmonean Kingdom of Judah. It included the West Bank, Gaza, and Golan Heights. Capital (what is now East) Jerusalem / “Old City”; between 110 BCE / 754 BH and 63 BCE / 706 BH - Map:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Hasmonean_kingdom.jpg



    The “Palestinian Arabs” dropped the name “Arab” because they do not want you to understand they mostly originate from Foreign-Arab-Migrant-Workers who came to the land of Israel just prior to, and during the British Mandate, to take advantage of higher wages through Jewish returnee-exiles:

    - - - - Start of extracts: - - - -

     

    “Which towns, villages, and cities [of the British Mandate] offered the higher economic opportunity? Analyzing the 1922 and 1931 demographic data by sub-district and separating those sub-districts of Palestine that eventually became 1948 Israel—that is, sub-districts that had relatively large Jewish populations (with accompanying Jewish capital and modern technology)—from those that were not designated as part of 1948 Israel, identified not only the direction of Arab Palestinian migration within Palestine but its magnitude as well. [32]

     

    [...] That over 10 percent of the 1931 Arab Palestinian population in those sub-districts that eventually became Israel had immigrated to those sub-districts within the 1922-31 years is a datum of considerable significance. It is consistent with the fragmentary evidence of illegal migration to and within Palestine; it supports the idea of linkage between economic disparities and migratory impulses—a linkage universally accepted; it undercuts the thesis of “spatial stickiness” attributed by some scholars to the Arab Palestinian population of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries; and it provides strong circumstantial evidence that the illegal Arab immigration into Palestine, like that within Palestine, was of consequence as well.”

     

    Footnote:

    32. For a sub-district by sub-district count of population and for the methodology used to separate subdivisions that became 1948 Israel and those that did not, see Fred M. Gottheil, “Arab Immigration into Pre-State Israel: 1922-1931,” Middle Eastern Studies, 9 (1973):
    315-24. The analysis here is a summary version of this article.

     

    Extracts source:

    “The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine, 1922-1931”
    by Fred M. Gottheil
    Middle East Forum - Middle East Quarterly
    Winter 2003, Vol. 10, No. 1, pp. 53-64:
    https://www.meforum.org/522/the-smoking-gun-arab-immigration-into-palestine

     

    - - - - End of extracts - - - -

    The “Palestinian” Arabs were opposed to being called a “People” until the 1960’s, when they decided it fitted with their intention to steal the land of Israel from its indigenous Jews:

    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11401/palestinian-people

    Why did the “Palestinian” Arabs decide to falsely-claim they are native to the land of Israel?
    The purpose of League of Nations (later the United Nations) Mandates such as the one awarded to Great Britain, was to develop the territory for the benefit of its native people:

    - - - - Start of extract: - - - -

     

    “Two governing principles formed the core of the Mandate System, being non-annexation of the territory and its administration as a “sacred trust of civilisation” to develop the territory for the benefit of its native people.”

     

    Extract source:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations_mandate

     

    - - - - End of extract - - - -

    Research (2014) on 1,000 “Palestinian” Arab surnames ranked them (numbered them) in order of the highest instances of each surname found in the Palestine region. It also then identified the country(ies) having the highest incidence of those surnames; whether of “Palestine” or other countries.

     

    I examined the first 100 of those ranked “Palestinian” Arab surnames (from the total of 1,000 ranked surnames), which makes a 10% sample.

    Of the sample first 100 ranked “Palestinian” Arab surnames:

    16 surnames had the highest incidence in the Palestine region.

     

    The remaining 84 “Palestinian” Arab surnames had the highest incidence in countries other than the Palestine region, as follows:

    35 ranked surnames had highest incidence in Egypt.

    11 ranked surnames had highest incidence in Iraq.

    9 ranked surnames had highest incidence in Yemen.

    7 ranked surnames had highest incidence in Syria.

    6 ranked surnames had highest incidence in Jordan.

    6 ranked surnames had highest incidence in Pakistan.

    3 ranked surnames had highest incidence in Nigeria.

    2 ranked surnames had highest incidence in Sudan.

    2 ranked surnames had highest incidence in India.

    1 ranked surname had highest incidence in Tanzania.

    1 ranked surname had highest incidence in Saudia Arabia.

    1 ranked surname had highest incidence in Bangladesh.

    Total 84

     

    Summary-extract of the highest 10 ranked “Palestinian” Arab surnames (see source below for full list and detail):

    1) Awad:
    Highest incidence country: Sudan.

    2) Al Najjar:
    Highest incidence country: Yemen.

    3) El Masry:
    Highest incidence country: Jordan.

    4) Odeh:
    Highest incidence country: Nigeria.

    5) Hamdan:
    Highest incidence country: Syria.

    6) Saleh:
    Highest incidence country: Yemen.

    7) Al Khatib:
    Highest incidence country: Syria.

    8) Shaheen:
    Highest incidence country: Egypt.

    9) Manssour:
    Highest incidence country: Egypt.

    10) Mousa:
    Highest incidence country: Egypt.

     

    My extract source document:
    “Country Origin of Palestinian Arab Surnames upd.pdf” - information source “forebears.io”: 
    https://www.mediafire.com/file/9d115bv6w4z4kzb/Country+Origin+of+Palestinian+Arab+Surnames+upd.pdf/file


    Posted: Robert, May 28, 2021 8:39 AM MDT.

    This post was edited by Robert at October 23, 2021 5:30 AM MDT
      May 28, 2021 8:39 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    Did anyone anywhere ever tell you that you are an ENCYCLOPEDIA Robert? I mean that as the highest compliment. This is almost too much. What I mean by that is the care with which you are responding to my questions is almost too much because it's overwhelming for one thing. I do appreciate it and well if you keep showing up and doing it maybe I'll get used to it. I don't mean to take it ungraciously. I very much like it. Takes a little getting used to though. I do have others with whom I chat daily who do such extensive contributing from time to time. It's not something I dismiss or don't value. Just so ya know! Thank you for your reply and if you wonder about how I express myself it is all purposeful. I was an English major so I know what proper correct is. But I also think the language is not dead..it is alive and lively and viable and so I take liberties with it to have some fun. I know better. I just sometimes don't care to do better! OK. Enough of that. Thank you for your reply Robert! :)
      May 28, 2021 9:11 AM MDT
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  • 258
    I want to thank contributor "RosieG" for her courteous response / feedback; which is appreciated. I just want to take the opportunity to explain that when I write, I address myself to the general reader. No discourtesy is meant by this; the same method is used in the British Parliament and in many company board rooms. It is intended to avoid any feeling of personal conflict when discussing opposing issues. Just one more thing, - Although this is unlikely to be believed, I never seek to change anyone's view! My intention is to provide information to those general readers who have not yet made up their mind on the issue under discussion. Finally, it is not me that is "encyclopedic"; I seek to provide proper sources to help substantiate the information I provide, in order to help others make up their own minds.
      May 28, 2021 10:24 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    AS you wish Robert. However you do know that there is no guarantee that anyone else will read this but me don't you? Setting that aside whatever mode of expression you choose to use is fine with me. Thank you for the explanation. I appreciate it! :) This post was edited by RosieG at May 31, 2021 9:03 PM MDT
      May 28, 2021 10:43 AM MDT
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