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Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » SEX. A driving force of mankind. Look at the word and what does it bring to mind for YOU? Goodness/pleasure or humiliation/fear? Why?
RosieG

SEX. A driving force of mankind. Look at the word and what does it bring to mind for YOU? Goodness/pleasure or humiliation/fear? Why?

Have all your experiences been pleasurable? (No details please) Or are there very dark places you would rather not recall? (No details please). Men and women alike like/love it when it is consensual. Men like it when it isn't as well but women feel as if they are in he**! Do the men who "take" women against their will feel pride at their might?  Does it make them feel extra macho masculine virile? SIGH. Will men ever change? Will they ever respect women enough to NEVER do that again? I dunno. They may not have "right stuff" to always do the "right thing". More's the pity. I know. Men can be raped too. I wonder how THEY like it?

Posted - June 8, 2018
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Responses


  • 1233
    What a misandric rant. Your attitude to men is shameful. If a man made some kind of equivalent rant about the character of women in general, he would be condemned as a compete misogynist (especially by the likes of you).

    Rape of men can't really be compared to rape of women. Rape of man would make a man feel that he is not even a man. It's an even more serious crime.

    In the civilised world, the psychology of a rapist is only present in a very small percentage on men. Less than 1%.

    There are different types of rape that the law refuses to recognise. The psychology of these is very different. At one end of the scale are ultra violent attacks in the street by someone the victim doesn't know. At the other end of the scale are cases where the woman consents but then changes her mind in the middle of the act, tells the man to get off her, and he lacks the self control to do so immediately.

    We all believe there are different types of murder, though anyone claiming there are legally distinct types of rape is called a rape apologist.

    In addition to thinking about what kind of man would rape, we need to think about what kind of woman would make a false accusation. That does happen. At least 50% of women who claim to have been raped are lying and just vindictively trying to destroy a man's life. This post was edited by Zeitgeist at June 8, 2018 6:21 AM MDT
      June 8, 2018 3:49 AM MDT
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  • 6098
    Zeitgeist I felt I needed to respond to your comment.  The violation of rape can completely dehumanize us , making us feel we are a thing or an object rather than a person. So much more than just a matter of feeling we are not a woman. And for most of us, unless we are hiding our heads completely in the clouds or in the sand, just being a woman renders means we are susceptible to rape. 

    I don't know if there is any difference between the "civilized" world and what you might consider the "uncivilized" one, but through history sexual access to us was often regarded as a function of power and wealth and there may well still be a sense of that today. 

    Having no idea how anyone could come up with such figures I would say that more than 1% of men  rape and perhaps a significantly larger percentage will kill us. Thus willing to take our lives rather than just our bodies. 

    And I would point out that we often do "consent" because we are pressured to do so and because in the larger scheme of things it seems to us to make more sense to just go along with it to make an end to it and get out of there rather than trying to protest and fight for which we don't have the energy or the inclination. Our society does seem to value power and conquest and wants us to fight off and vanquish our would-be-rapist.  But this is more fantasy thinking than anything real.  Most of us have no desire or inclination or even the wherewithal to fight so we go along. 

    Is often the case that our physiology is telling us yes go ahead but we don't know if it will be a good thing for jus or if it will work our or if we want to get more involved so yes we can change our mind which yes I can understand would be confusing and frustrating to men.  But as long as it is against our will it is rape whether or not we are able to verbally articulate that will. Now I am speaking actually and not just legally because a legal situation brings in a whole lot of other variables most of which we would choose not to deal with at all. 

    Most of us have been raped, some of us several times. It is something we constantly are living with and trying to get over.   Whether by the violent stranger when I was 20 and working as a chambermaid or one of my husband's clients surprising me and presuming too much on a vacation weekend it does happen and yes in often quite different ways. 

    It is natural for us - for each of us - to use what we have at our disposal to achieve what we want in life.  Just as some men use their superior strength to rape us some of use accusations and interpretations of the facts to achieve our ends.  If their is support and a social climate is conducive to making such accusations some of us will go for it.  Now I don't know any woman who had done that but I have known some who have considered it.  What I can't get past is all the women eager to publicize their former liaisons with celebrities.  And I notice that they never accuse Joe Average but only "name" personalities.  Because if I had been so abused by anyone like that I would  not want it common knowledge. I mean all that is nothing knew and has always gone on and will always go on and people acting .like rape is such a revelation I have to sort of laugh at thinking OK where have you been all your life? Again I would not try and place any percentages on who is or is not lying but its not something we readily would admit to unless there is some kind of payoff for us.  But I would venture to say that for every woman who does decide to lie (and goodness we are only human) there are many more who have been so abused who choose to sit in silence and deal with it. 
      June 8, 2018 6:54 AM MDT
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  • 1233
    Hello Officegirl. I'm very sorry to hear you have personally suffered.

    It's true that it is very difficult to put percentages on such things. What I said is just my guess. However I believe that any man who is psychologically capable of rape would do it many times. I therefore believe the percentage of men who are capable of rape to be far far lower than the percentage of women who are victims.

    I am convinced that certain societies have a much bigger problem than others. While human nature is a constant everywhere, I believe that the west has a far more gentlemanly attitude to women than most other cultures. Many Muslim men have a diabolical attitude. A very high percentage of Muslim men think that anything goes with non Muslim women who don't dress according to Islamic tradition. The Koran even says that a man is limited to four wives and what his "right hand possesses" (The right hand is the sword arm. It is openly saying that women captured in conflicts can be used as he sees fit.)

    "But as long as it is against our will it is rape whether or not we are able to verbally articulate that will." 

    I can't agree with this statement. Men are not psychic and some men have poor social skills. You can't accuse someone of violating your will if you don't express your will. If you don't articulate yourself, your silence is tacit consent (except in cases of being passed out of course). A man who pushes through token resistance is guilty of ungentlemanly conduct, not rape. (I would never do such a thing because I'm a gentleman, but I don't consider it rape.)

    "Most of us have no desire or inclination or even the wherewithal to fight so we go along."

    As a man, I find this very difficult to understand. If I were a woman and someone tried to rape me, I would fight back ferociously. I would be quite willing to kill him and I'd have a clear conscience afterwards. I might fail miserably in fighting him off but an attempt would be made. Though I suppose if I were a woman, I'd have a female psychology too and so maybe I would be less inclined to fight.

    "But I would venture to say that for every woman who does decide to lie (and goodness we are only human) there are many more who have been so abused who choose to sit in silence and deal with it."

    I find it very disturbing that you talk about false allegations in these terms . A woman who makes a false allegation is not "only human", she's human garbage. She deserves hard jail time. I consider the act of false accusation to be roughly equivalent to rape. An innocent men who is even accused of rape, never mind convicted, is finished. The stain on his character will never wash off. Innocent men who go to prison frequently end up getting raped themselves and suffer enormously. What punishment do you think it appropriate for a woman proven to have lied? This post was edited by Zeitgeist at June 8, 2018 9:14 AM MDT
      June 8, 2018 9:03 AM MDT
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  • 6098
    Your question touches on some things, your description gets into others.  Not sure why you are asking us to focus on connotations of the word rather than on the subject itself, but I will play.  I guess I think of it as basically a biological fact of life.  How we were created to more greatly ensure reproduction.  Feels great and once we get going with a suitable and sympathetic partner can so often be mind-blowing.  So we want it again and again which means more and more chances for us to become pregnant.  Especially if we are not careful and once we get going being careful sort of just goes out the window!

    As a mixed-up and disaffected adolescent feeling uncomfortable in a world for which I felt unprepared and in which I felt I didn't fit in - sex was perhaps the only thing that made me feel good about myself and worthwhile.  And made me feel good without hurting me like say drugs or alcohol. So of course became important to me because was almost the only way I knew of fitting into the world at all.  I never had much in the way of looks but men still wanted to have sex with me.  And in so doing they got to know me and enough of them saw something worthwhile enough in me they wanted to hang out with me and spend time together so became my boyfriends.  So with the confidence this supplied I could see myself in a new and better light and build upon that to really try and make myself a better and more accomplished person.

    You have brought up the subject of rape which is unfortunately a fact of life for most, perhaps all, of us.  Although most men will not rape us there is no question that it does play into their desire for and need of feeling personal power.  Which really we all need to have some of and if we cannot get it in positive ways sometimes we seek it through negative and hurtful means.  And even many men who would never resort to violence under any conditions are still sexually excited by the idea of rape if not the actual facts. 

    As most men are generally going to be stronger than we are they will be able to pin us down and if they are able to do that and removing our clothing while still maintaining sexual excitement then they are theoretically capable of raping us.  Which is not a comforting thought but for me anyway makes me appreciate all the more all the men who don't rape.  And with men in groups there can be division of labor so we learn to fear groups of men even more.  

    Men want to get with us and they use whatever they have at their disposal to do so.  They might try to charm us or impress us or buy us things or make good experiences for us or lay guilt trips on us or try and prove scientifically to us why we should be with them or promise this and that etc. etc.  And what makes it much more complex is we want them as well both structurally (how we were created) and actually (sexual desire and excitement) as well.  So they know that is there and they go for it and if we resist for whatever reasons, and there can be many, they somehow think we are not playing the game or wonder what they are doing wrong that whatever they did not work with us.  So then they become confused and frustrated. 

    Because we are created for men we are naturally attracted to a variety of men and its like often just the closer we get to them the more we feel that desire.  Which natural though it is creates a quandary for us because we know if we let things keep going they will end in sex and we try to decide if that will be a good thing with that particular person do we want to become even closer, how will he react, how much does he really like us, are we ready, are we prepared and so on.  Because also what is vitally important to us and perhaps even more so than sex is our security and swell-being and that of our children  so that will most often be part of our consideration as well. So we get into situations where it can be great with someone but we just know that he will not give us the kind of security we want so we sort of back away or what do we do?  A lot of our decisions and choices relate to our security. 

    About men respecting us and doing the "right thing" I know Rosie remembers a time, as I do, when many men were gentlemen which was a manly code of taking care of us and protecting us and not hurting us.  Which was great though in its own way, on reflection, a little condescending as well. And some men are still that way but in general it was a matter of community-enforced standards and if you wanted to fit in you behaved that way whether you really were a "gentleman" or not!  What is it that will cause men to respect us? I think getting to know us as persons and not trying to put us up on unrealistic pedestals we don't deserve and could never hope to live up to.   When I was growing up my mother taught me if I engaged kin sex too easily hat the right kind of men would not respect me and so would not want to marry me.  Now that has changed a lot since then and many men have come to realize that we are human to but not be any means all of them.  And even on this site we can read men labeling us as "whores" simply because we somehow did not live up to their unrealistic expectations of us. 

    We can feel humiliated when we have carefully or passionately given ourselves but our man does not feel the same level of connection or commitment. Perhaps we too can be guilty of expecting too much of men. Especially when we are young and inexperienced.  We feel humiliation as well when we find ourselves responding to and enjoying men we would rather not feel all those things with. Because biology can sometimes be stronger than will.  And we feel humiliated hen what we have engaged in privately with our defenses down is made public knowledge.  Which is why most of us choose not to try and prosecute when raped but instead develop often complex strategies to deal with the hurt we feel as well as remain whole and functioning and positive about our future. 

    Movies and TV shows and fiction which glorify rape do not help.  Nor does porn which presents all manner of young lovelies automatically engaging in all manner of acts without the slightest effort or respect on the part of the men.  So many men these days seem to get everything they know about us from the net and so learn nothing about how to realistically relate to us one on one realistically. When I was young men and women came together in all manner of places - school, churches, country clubs, hobby clubs, activities - so we learned about each other faster and more accurately and without the veil of mystery and exploitation which the net seems to offer and cultivate in the solitary male. 
      June 8, 2018 6:18 AM MDT
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  • 46117
    Misunderstanding, toxic behavior and unwanted pregnancy.

    We cannot even govern our own bodies and how to respect them.
      June 8, 2018 6:56 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    It used to mean something else to me. But with this avalanche of perverted men from all walks of life who sexually abuse women is growing ever larger and larger and larger  I am now officially disgusted at the entire subject. It helps being 80! Thank you for your reply Sharon.
      June 8, 2018 8:20 AM MDT
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