Is getting a bad deal better/worse than no deal at all? Because?

I guess most things either boil down to "it depends" or  "it's all about the money honey" or "it's complicated". I think I'm gonna ask. Vis a vis all the deals we were in that TGITWH pulled us out of (I know..bad girl.. ending with dangling preposition) do you agree with his assessment that they were all bad deals for us?  I know "good" and "bad" are subjective opinions but what is yours Walt? What deals did he break you wish he hadn't?  Thank you for your reply and Happy Friday! 

Personally ... I think the tariffs were a stupid idea.  They went against the advice of all experts.

I don't get the whole "Free trade agreement" thing.  I mean, how many hundreds of pages is it?
You want "free trade" between countries?  I can do that in a single page. 
How difficult is it to say that trade from those countries will be treated the same way as interstate commerce? LOL
(too bad that isn't what is going to happen)

And, of course, there's the fact that unilaterally pulling out of deals - whether personal or between nations - NEVER sits well with the other parties involved.

This post was edited by Walt O'Reagun at August 17, 2018 9:03 AM MDT

It sure as he** isn't conducive to attracting others to engage in any agreements with you since you don't keep your word! The stupid dumb dingbat wackadoodle prez. Go figger! Thank you for your thoughtful reply Walt! :)

As an informed and astute observer of what's going on in the US m'dear what do you think about all of the deals we were in that TGITWH pulled us out of? Was he right or wrong. Has he helped us or harned us? I am prejudiced of course. In my eyes he can no nothing good or right or positive. Thank you for your reply Addb! :)

The deals and talks Trump has pulled America out of stand America in poor stead on the international stage.. Some Americans claim that doesn't matter but in the same breath they say that AMerica is THE world leader, respected as leaders... Well I am afraid in those decisions, particularly the environmental ones the world, who mostly DO agree, find it makes America look ignorant.. Head in the sand ignorance.. and that does not sit well and it doesn't bring America respect...It also decreases their respect in international matters.. No one is going to listen or respect America's opinions because of Trump's actions 

The so-called "international stage" (which as an entity does not really exist) has resented us for many years.  People around the world similarly bond through their hatred of us. They have always been very wary of us and delight in any misfortune which happens to befall us.  I think the reasons for this are many and can be seen as complex - though I am no expert I would say some has to do with jealousy of our freedoms and the possibilities such freedom affords us as a classless society. Others I see as being related to our arrogance and lack of diplomacy in many situations (which btw I agree with and deplore- that "we're number one notion and the attendant one that we are somehow able to go just blaming through anything anywhere without respecting the local customs of where we are).  Long before the U'S. was even considered a world power there was somehow the notion that we were all simple ignorant aggressive cowboys so not to be taken seriously or listened to or respected.   When I visited Spain and France and the UK I could not even enjoy personal relationships without getting a lecture on U.S. foreign policy, Vietnam, or this or that.  And that was in 1989. 

Please understand that many people in this country so value our freedom that we would not sell it out for anything in the world.  We do not like to be railroaded or herded by our own government let alone those of various countries. We want simply to live our own lives unmolested and make what we can of them and solve our own problems.  If you would regard that as "head in the sand ignorance" then so be it - we are not dependent upon your whims and your respect and what you think is good for you but we are just trying to be ourselves.  Which we believe any good government should honor.  Beyond that for many of us it is not about government at all and we content to leave government to our elected, appointed, and hired officials. 

President Trump is sort of a combination of the best and worst of this country!  We did not support him at all - in fact we supported more traditionally conservative candidates - but ultimately we voted for him. As did many others like us - not because we thought he was any great shakes but rather because he pledged to support our freedoms.  Many of us were tired and weary of politicians dictating to us what we should believe and what we should do, how we should act, behave, feel and so on.  We just want to live our own lives and make our own mistakes and enjoy the fruits of our labors and help others, if we are able, in the ways that we think best. 

I don't really know the details of any of the "deals" mentioned.   My husband and I support environmental causes and actions so we are generally in favor of what helps the environment  I can also see how they might be construed as not being in our best interest.  We had, for several years, a president who many of us felt was ashamed of his country and wanted to see it fail.  Now I can understand being ashamed of what there is to be ashamed of but for me our institutions have always been great and remain great so I seen no reason to apologize for them or give them away. This post was edited by officegirl at August 21, 2018 6:48 AM MDT

Well that's a nice long reply - thank you for taking the trouble.. The international stage is a non-entity.. i refer to it because so many Amercians believe they are centre stage and that they lead the world with others looking up to America.. I believe to some extent that was the case.. it isn't any more.. NO ONE well apart from America's many enemies and the new ones Trump is making hates America.. that would be paranoia.. As I say this comes from America and Americans..many of them hang onto the idea they are the superpower and that everyone else looks up to them.. It does seem that they need to believe that - cannot comprehend or cope with the reality that that is no longer the case.. It's a *need* and more than likely ties into the Make America Great movement.. 
I suspect that if those Americans who need to believe they are world leaders realise the truth the next move will be to accuse the rest of the world of hating them..  As I say very few countries hate America and paranoia that they do will be totally counterproductive and harmful to America. 
It would be illogical to say that people band together to hate America.. America has few real enemies, but of those that do hate AMerica, such as Iran etc.. and others who have good cause to hate them.. it would be totally illogical to even presume that other countries outside of that would band together.. for instance are you including UK and Canada in that? Both are allies.. it would be totally crackpot loony to think we would ever band together and that would just signify paranoia and unsubtantiatable conspiracy theory.. in any event it isn't the case - this all comes FROM America believing or not accepting that their influence world wide has slipped.. 
Back to that.. that was the real point wasn't it.. why does it matter? It doesn't matter to us outside of the US but again it is the belief some Americans seem to need to have that America speaks and everyone listens.. that they can intervene, get involved in things and people will respect their influence.. SO the problem is not what others think so much, although yes, given the reduction in worldwide influence for a couple of decades now and then add to that Trump#s pulling out of several international forums where they COULD have held influence.. and his utterly insulting and offending ALLIES then that has happened - but it's that many AMericans don't seem to realise or accept the resultant decline in influence and respect.. Put simply they seem illogically to believe they can behave like asses and still command respect and influence.. It's not that the world has done anything.. it's that America has and the result is there is a lot less respect internationally for AMerica.. and their position.. Some Americans do accept and recognise this, lament it too but there's nothing that will be done to improve that while you guys have a complete imbecile in charge who goes around shouting his mouth of like a village idiot.. 
I have  seen your mention jealousy before.... I am afraid that factually that would not be a reason. The Arab countries fight against those freedoms and most of the rest of the world enjoy similar or even greater freedom.. We must be careful of picking the wrong motive.. it matters, as it fails to understand and address the real reasons.. See above.. 

Interesting you received lectures when you were in SPain and the UK.. I do think that Vietnam was one people find it hard to forget, but there have been more haven't there.. I am generally circumspect about the last war America waded in and started.. Americans at the time saw it as their duty, but most everyone else saw it as aggressive interference and arrogance.. There remain suspicions about the motives.. But the point is it didn't do AMerica any favours, (it didn't much do the UK who were dragged into it with you much good either) and perhaps it's been a slew of things that caused America to slip in world status, including your own economic troubles.. it not only decreased power but also caused knock on effects for other countries - perhaps it made others less respectful.. 

I think we can all understand and value freedom.. we all value our freedom too; we wouldn't sell it at any price.. but freedom is a banner sometimes that blinds people.. sometimes it's even used while removing or reducing others freedoms..  We need to be careful to retain freedom.. but not remove or reduce others.. And that is an accusation that has been made...

'If you would regard that as "head in the sand ignorance" then so be it - we are not dependent upon your whims and your respect and what you think is good for you but we are just trying to be ourselves.' I assume you were using you in a general way there rather than specifically so would just assure you that I've never heard anyone try to say otherwise.. I wonder if this is where the 'jealousy of our freedom' theory comes into it? If so then this is the wrong track.. no one's trying to tell anyone what to do.. and indeed it's probably the opposite - that AMerica's reputation and standing was partly damaged by their trying to intervene and interfere and in going in like a bull in a china shop.. So it's the opposite..

I can certainly identify with not wanting to be told what to do.. I recall  MANY AMericans were anti Brexit - said it was a disaster.. more than likely because it didn't suit America who had used the UK to calm and influence EU... or so I have been told.. But whenever I said to Americans, 'Yea well how would YOU like an un-elected bureaucracy in another country telling YOU what to do?? ' That's what we had.. people in the EU telling us we cannot fish in our own waters, that we have to import EU fish, and our UK milk being poured away while we were forced to buy EU milk and our UK apples destroyed because they didn't meet EU size and shape requirements..  Funny enough I never had one single American sit up and say, ' oh yea I see what you mean.. ' It seemed most of them were happy to have US be told what to do by another country.. .

I think my worry when you say Trump supports your freedoms is that he more than likely doesn't and in that  all govts are the same.. ish anyway.. and I worry that with his policies not everyone is going to get to enjoy the fruits of their labours.. some will be disadvantaged.. I  have a lot of American friends.. and they point out that it's certainly not a classless society.. 

Obama was an enigma.. he wasn't keen on the UK and actually threatened us over Brexit.. we just laughed and perversely some may even have voted Brexit just because we don't like beinbg told what to do..  so that backfired.. NO ONE took him seriously.. But at the same time, internationally Obama was respected.. in the same way that now Trump is internationally disliked and disrespected.. No one's telling you what to do.. we all just feel sorry for you and wonder where it's all going to end and how much damage he is going to do in the meantime.. 

Re environmental.. me too, very much so.. but I assume you know that Trump's decision to not do this and not to that and not to take climate change seriously.. may slightly help some there... but it actively harms others.. that's where I disagree with freedom.. when one person's, or in this case country's freedom harms another.. others will suffer from climate change... others will have to work harder.. THIS really, more than anything destroys respect for America.. the biggest problem facing the world.. countries from all round the world working together.. and Trump trounces off.. that to me is the worse thing ever.. it's idiotic..   There are lists around that catalogue all of Trump's decision and their impact, negatively on environment..  

Of all the agreements, "deals" we used to be in that TGITWH yanked us out of do you agree with some, all or none? Thank you for your reply DA.