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Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » I think the damage is permanent. The abomination we have suffered since January 2017 cannot be prayed away. How badly damaged are we?

I think the damage is permanent. The abomination we have suffered since January 2017 cannot be prayed away. How badly damaged are we?

Posted - March 21, 2019

Responses


  • 6098
    One person's "abomination" might be another's cause for rejoicing.   Many of us have been relieved to be able to enjoy more peace of mind and have more a sense of hope for the future of this country rather than feeling threatened and that our days as a free country were numbered. 
      March 21, 2019 7:34 AM MDT
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  • 19942
    A bit dramatic, don't you think?  What freedoms were threatened before January 2017?  
      March 21, 2019 8:41 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    :):):)
      March 22, 2019 3:17 AM MDT
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  • 19942
    That observation has been made before, but when I asked the question then, I didn't get an answer.  Maybe one will be forthcoming now.
      March 22, 2019 8:00 AM MDT
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  • 32527
    2nd Amendment rights, 1st Amendments rights. (Free Speech zones, forced purchase of products even if against religious values, Opposition to Citizens United which silenced organizations right before an election, claimed could even prevent books from publishing before an election, under Obama Dems went from "live and let live" to "bake my cake, or else", he attacked home schoolers, Obama actually charged more members the press than all the other Presidents combined, he tapped their phones and threatened them)  So we have the threatening the freedoms of speech, religion, press and right to keep and bear arms.  I am sure there is more I am forgetting.  But you now, have received an answer. 
      March 22, 2019 10:02 AM MDT
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  • 19942
    Did he take away your guns?  No.  

    "The existence of free speech zones is based on U.S. court decisions stipulating that the government may reasonably regulate the time, place, and manner – but not content – of expression."  Free speech zones are not speech free zones.  They merely regulate the time, place and manner.  They do not prevent speech and the U.S. courts have ruled this is legal.

    Citizens United won a U.S. Supreme Court case known as Citizens United v. FEC, which struck down as unconstitutional a federal law prohibiting corporations and unions from making expenditures in connection with federal elections.  So, that right hasn't been taken away.

    The homeschooling issue pertained to a German family who was given asylum here because if they had remained in Germany, they would have been persecuted because home schooling is not permitted there.  This has no bearing on U.S. children being home schooled.  If you would care to read the entire story, you can find it here:  https://www.educationviews.org/obama-targets-homeschoolers/

    O
    bama went after leakers - whether they were journalists or not.  People, journalists included, should be prosecuted for leaking sensitive national security information.  Some of those journalists were connected to Edward Snowden who is a U.S. traitor.  It's unfortunte that you think that anyone who blows the whistle by leaking sensitive information should be given a pass.  

    As far as your cake baking - when you own a business that caters to the public, you cannot say, "I will only cater to the part of the public with whom I agree."  Refusing to bake a cake for a homosexual couple abridges THEIR freedom, which is against the law.  

    Threatening to abridge freedoms of speech, religion, press and the right to keep and bear arms and actually abridging those freedoms are two different things.  Unless I'm mistaken, you can still speak you mind, practice your preferred religion, read any number of newspapers, etc., keep and bear arms.  As far as your cake baking - when you own a business that caters to the public, you cannot say, "I will only cater to the part of the public with whom I agree."  Refusing to bake a cake for a homosexual couple abridges THEIR freedom, which is against the law.
      March 24, 2019 12:37 PM MDT
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  • 32527
    "What freedoms were threatened before January 2017?"

    You asked what was threatened not what Obama succeeded in taking away.  
    "
      March 24, 2019 4:11 PM MDT
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  • 19942
    NONE of it was taken away and, according to you only the press were supposedly threatened and that was because they were suspected of divulging classified information.  I'm not sure why you can't see the difference.  
      March 24, 2019 5:38 PM MDT
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  • 32527
    You asked what rights were threatened. I answered you...now you want to change the question to what rights do he succeed in taking away. 

    I gave you some examples of Obamas attempts to take rights away. You can disagree. But those are facts. 
    I did not say he succeeded. 
      March 24, 2019 5:46 PM MDT
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  • 19942
    You just don't get it do you?  Your freedom of speech was not threatened, gun control is not threatening to take your precious guns away, the court case involving home schooling was extremely limited to ONE German family who were not even citizens.  The broad brush strokes you claim Obama threatened EVERYONE with was never the case to begin with and didn't end up there.  As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over because you just cannot understand the nuances of each of the points you raised. This post was edited by SpunkySenior at March 24, 2019 9:46 PM MDT
      March 24, 2019 8:49 PM MDT
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  • 32527
    Of course, Obama was wonderful and did not attempt to fundamentally change America. I give you an answer to what did Obama threaten.
    Gun control is a threat to the 2nd amendment. (Why did the Dems block a bill that would have reported to the police if an illegal attempted to purchase a firearm?) Gun controls are how the Dems plans to slowly take the 2nd amendment right away.  As Obama said, "It can't be guns, I don't have the votes." 
    Prosecuting members of the press....wanting to limit speech before an election. Etc etc etc. (Press and speech) 

    I know a threat to my rights when I see it.
     And Thankfully enough of us also see it. And we did fight it. This post was edited by my2cents at March 25, 2019 8:19 AM MDT
      March 25, 2019 4:36 AM MDT
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  • 19942
    For the umpteenth time - NO ONE IS TAKING YOUR GUNS.
      March 25, 2019 7:54 AM MDT
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  • 32527
    But not because they don't want to, only because they cannot. 
      March 25, 2019 7:57 AM MDT
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  • 19942
    Just stop.
      March 25, 2019 8:14 AM MDT
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  • 32527
    Please do. I simply gave an accurate answer to a question you asked. 
      March 25, 2019 8:22 AM MDT
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  • 6098
    I want to take this chance to sound off on your "cake baking". I believe it our right as private and self-supporting individuals if we are business owners tp serve or serve people as we see fit. The firm I work for, which does business internationally as well as nationally, is not obliged to accept contracts from anyone and everyone - especially if it deems that to fulfil those contracts would be difficult or impossible or if they would cause harm to us.  Or to others.  Business owner doesn't accept someone as a customer they take the economic loss which is their right.  Same as people do not want to serve Sarah Sanders for God knows why - because she is white or because she works in the White House or they don't like her looks or whatever. She can go elsewhere.  Someone doesn't like me I don't go crying to the government but I would prefer to go where I am wanted.  And I have read where the leftists teach not to serve conservatives.  Economic persuasion is legitimate and sometimes effective.  You don't agree with someone you are under no obligation to do business with them.  Now I would argue that in not doing business you decrease your customer base but if you are so hopped up on this or that ideal you can't see your way to serving them or making them a cake  then that is your right.  Government should be able to tell you how to run your business and what to do with it except in time of national emergency.  Telling you what to do and how to do it and coercing your compliance is totalitarianism. 
      March 26, 2019 8:39 AM MDT
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  • 19942
    There would have been no damage to the bakers had they done the wedding cake.  They also declined based on the fact that the couple was same sex.  In the US, we don't get to discriminate based on sexual preferences.
      March 26, 2019 1:34 PM MDT
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  • 113301
     I wish the liddle donny di worshipping adorers would answer this question..."why do you support a man who hates and spreads fear and lies and attacks and insults and takes credit where credit isn't due but refuses to take responsibility for what he does/says?" If they reply at all they start off with WHATABOUT which shows the lack of depth or ability to defend their man. It is wanton and promiscous and evil-enabling and they think they are on the side of right which puts them on the side of GOD which is blasphemy to me. Thank you for your reply L and Happy Saturday! :)
      March 23, 2019 2:14 AM MDT
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  • 32527
    If you turn off MSNBC and just listen to what President Trump says you will see he does not hate or spread fear. Attacks and insults are all countrer-attacks and counter-insults.  What does and does not deserve credit remains in the eye of the beholder. 
      March 26, 2019 8:49 AM MDT
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  • 6098
    The Boston Globe - once a good liberal newspaper but now a rabid one - as soon as Donald Trump was elected was printing articles about how all immigrants must leave the country now to avoid prosecution and deportment.  Then a few months later blamed our president for their departure.  

    Can say what you want about his "insults" but at least he gives as good as he gets.  Not how I was brought up but then I guess not much of anything is anymore. 
      March 26, 2019 9:17 AM MDT
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  • 6098
    I am sorry I did not read this challenge a few days ago but just came across it.  2cents has covered some of the issues.  You know this is the second time (I have been aware of) you have accused me of being overly dramatic on here.  But I think you need to realize that some people have a real fear of what is going on more and more in this country.  The whole historical basis of this country is being questioned. 

    Many of us grew up with being taught this is a great country because of the freedoms we have and unless we take advantage of those freedoms and defend them we will lose them.  Not a perfect country by any means but we were taught to emphasize the positive aspects of our best historical institutions.  And we learned to be responsible for ourselves and to respect and work with others because God loves them as well as us.  Which meant we had the freedom to make something of ourselves if we wished to or not do anything.  Which we accepted. We learned you work for a living and you have responsibilities to your employers as well as to yourself and your family and to others.  My father , a very successful if unhappy man, used to say we either work and take care of ourselves which is the basis of our freedom or someone will do it for us which is the basis of slavery.  You either earn your keep or you rob it from someone else who works for their keep.  We can learn from everyone and if we exclude anyone (which is our right to do) we suffer ourselves because we miss their possible input.  We must learn to work with others because we cannot do it ourselves.  And few when I was growing up sought to question those things or dispute them. 

    Now what do we see?  Many people think working is for suckers. Just let the government take care of us. I have noticed the less people believe in God the more they enshrine the government and look to the government for solutions rather than themselves. They have no idea or feeling for the dignity of work and self -determination at all.  Politicians have taught them that rather than having to work for things rather everything is now their "right".  They have a "right" to this and a "right" to that and a "right" to everything and the government exists to "guarantee" them everything. They want the government to exert control over just everything and they are eager to sell  any residual freedom they might have just for a government check.  So hard work and sacrifice and success and dreaming and planning are now demonized.  Why?  Because they are seen as presumptuous and as creating "inequality" and the way they think everybody should all have the same things and be the same and think the same because that is the "right" of everyone so no need to strive and make something of ourselves. Just sit around and collect checks and blame everything on the government who they think are supposed to take care of them. 

    Now it is taught in the schools that we are a "bad" country full of "capitalists" and "racists" and "sexists" and indian killers so we have no right to anything and we must hang our heads in shame and apologize to the world and wear sackcloth and ashes and beat our breasts in the hope of forgiveness.  We must let all we have worked for go in order to be "fair" to others and give up all our freedoms because others in the world don't have them.   Our freedoms are somehow not "right" because all others do not share them. 

    Same with what we have worked for. Any wealth we have accumulated we should be prosecuted for and it should be taken away from us because not everyone possesses the same wealth. Therefore it is "wrong".  And the way some think any wealth we have accumulated belongs to the government anyway. And so what is created is a tiered society or class society where some people are to be charged more for the same goods and services than other people, while others get them for free! And oh in the name of "equality".  And "compassion". Because they have created a "victim" class of people who are not able to care for themselves so the government must do it for them.  Which is considered compassion. Which allows no room for us to show real compassion and help people because the government usurps that freedom.  Compassion is a human quality - a government cannot have "compassion" because it is not human. 

    So our individuality goes down the tubes because it is viewed only as an extravagance of the rich and well to do which not everyone can "afford" because they must look only to the government for their upkeep so they have to tow the line and parrot the right phrases and pay lip service to the right ideas not only for their own well being and to avoid prosecution, but for their own survival.  So of course we can't be ourselves in the same way. 

    What seems to be most impractical about this kind of thinking is that it doesn't acknowledge that the basis of the wealth of our country is in the wealth of its inhabitants.  Which comes through hard work. More people who don't work and let the government own them he less wealth our country has.  Not sure where they come be this - perhaps they think OK we just borrow and borrow which had gone on far too long in this country. 
      March 26, 2019 8:20 AM MDT
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  • 19942
    To be honest, I don't have the patience to read your over-long comments.  My fear is that Trump has brought this country down to its lowest level since emancipation from England.  I am more fearful of his wanting to dictate to the media who they can and can't have on their programs.  I am more fearful of his buddying up to the likes of Putin and Kim Jung Un.  I am more fearful of his lack of intellect when it comes to global warming and its dire effects and his roll-back of EPA regulations meant to protect the environment and the people here because it curtails big businesses from getting bigger.  I'm more fearful that his roll-back of FDA regulations and inspections will cause even more food and drug recalls.  I'm fearful that the middle class will disappear because the differences between the ultra rich and the ultra poor grows larger each year.  That's my fear. 
      March 26, 2019 1:40 PM MDT
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  • 7280
    And you are sure your peace of mind and sense of hope for the future are based on a realistic assessment of reality?  Many feel exactly the opposite.

    Either you or those people will prove to be mistaken.

    I wonder whose assessment will prove to be more accurate.
      March 24, 2019 7:41 PM MDT
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  • 6098
    Different people are of course looking for different things.  Which will affect their feelings about anything in particular.  For those of us who value individual freedom, love God, and are willing and thankful to work for a living the signs are indeed hopeful.  I guess  if you don't believe in those things you might have a different opinion. 
      March 25, 2019 6:08 AM MDT
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