Scripture tells us that one of the names for God is "Jehovah Jireh" the God that will provide. Certainly that's the case. The trouble is that often problems are the result of the free moral agency of man. We just like to blame God for our own misadventures and expect Him to make the bail for us, which He very often does.
I remember a retreat master suggesting that one think of God as being at least as good as the best person one knows. (Whoops---the analogy of being concept again.)
For me, much of my personal "understanding" of how God works is in the "good parent" paradigm---a healthy loving parent helping his children grow into fully functioning adults.
And that requires carrying them until they can walk; feeding them until they are self-sustaining; creating age appropriate situations and stresses (sorta like tropisms) that will allow them to develop appropriate responses to various situations---etc., etc.....
And a good parent provides opportunity for personal growth---eventually more and more contingent on the willing cooperation of the child themself. (They and associated pronouns are now "certified" as applying to either the singular or plural when the gender is non-specified---awkward for me to use still.)
Just a long response to say that God will both provide for you and yet still respect the boundaries that you set on His involvement.
So my answer to "which?" is "both" at different times and in different degrees.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply tom. Ever since I can remember I was taught GOD IS LOVE. I never questioned that. However I do think if we can work things out on our own we should. If we just sit back on our butts doing nothing by praying to God for deliverance that seems to me to be a very weak and lazy way to go through life. If we can figger it out ourselves then GOD is available to help those who are not as lucky as we are and could use some help. I've never thought otherwise. I don't fear GOD or think of HIM as being jealous or vindictive or revengeful. I know "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord" but really isn't that just a way to let us know that vengeance is not a worthy goal?
This post was edited by RosieG at September 20, 2019 2:11 PM MDT
As they used to say, "Angels don't change diapers." I tend to use what I have been given to work out the details of my life; but I occasionally invite God to get into my mind an organize it when I am spinning out of control.
I take pleasure in what I have become (and am still becoming) and the things that I am able to do well now.
And I find that "Help" is a useful prayer when I need some assistance or guidance.
Sometimes God seems to manipulate the externalities and sometimes He seems to lead me in what I need to do.
And while some would suggest that it is something interior to me that is making the right decisions and not an external "god," I am a believer; and alternate explanations that sometimes appear to make God unnecessary tend not to interest me---I am far beyond questioning whether God exists.
GOD IS---that means that He is pure esse (to be). In other words, He has every perfection to the "max"---including love, wisdom, knowledge, etc.
I can't remember a day when I have not felt a presence above and beyond and apart but also always within. Some folks look down on people like me because they do not share that "knowing". I doubt that anyone "looks down on" me for liking the color blue or broccoli or Lamborghinis or reading about quantum physics but some who believe only in the here and now and what they can PROVE think I'm a little squirrly. I've never been able to figure out why that is. I do resent "those" who think that makes them more intelligent and you can always tell which "those" they are by how they talk to you. Comparing you to children who believe in Santa Claus or leprechauns as if you are "less than". That's why I do a jig whenever I encounter folks like you. Very intelligent and also, well, like me. Now to be honest with you I think the prodons aren't as smart as the antidons so I guess I'm guilty of the same thing only for a different reason. It isn't easy being a homo sap. I am full of contradictions. I don't believe in killing animals for their fur but I LOVE LEATHER. I can't reconcile the two. I am a hypocrite! Are you a hypocrite about anything tom? I'm gonna ask a question. Thank you for your reply and Happy Saturday to you! :)
I'm sure I exhibit contradictions over time, but I do try to avoid hypocrisy. I put considerable effort into acting consistently and more fully according to what I think to be true and then with the actions indicative of that.
Sometimes I am struck by a realization of who I am and it isn't always a delight. I remember years ago I'd rail at those dames who encased themselves in furs at the expense of the lives of furry little creatures and felt SO SUPERIOR! All this while I treasured my black leather coat, leather purses and leather shoes. The day it hit me was not a good day for me. I don't know who else I am but I guess I will find out. Thank you for your reply! :)
Just we can lead a horse to water.....the horse has to make the effort to take the drink.
God often provides by giving us opportunities. How we react it up to us.
Just as the man in the flood. Weatherman: It is going to flood and time to evacuate. Man: No, I believe God will provide. Rain arrives and flood begins. Person comes by and offers a ride. Man: No thank you. God will provide. Rain continues...a boat comes be. Man: No, thank you. God will provide. Rain continues....the man is now on his roof. A plane comes and tries to pick him up. Man: No. I do not need your help. My God will provide. The man drowns. And goes to Heaven. He meets God and asks "I stood firm and waited for you to provide. I drown. Why did You let that happen?"
God: I provided a forcast, a car ride, a boat and a plane. What more did you want?
We have to recognize what God provides and take it.
Despite our radical differences about politics m2c there is a bond among people like us that nothing can ever break. It's kind of like being tethered to others. Even when you think you are all alone you aren't. You don't ever have to talk about it. We all KNOW and recognize one another. It's not fashionable or popular the way it used to be in the long ago but so what? Thank you for your reply and Happy Saturday to thee m2c.
My favorite class in junior college was PHILOSOPHY. The teacher, Mr. Hallman who is long-since dead, used the class to a very good purpose. He did not stand up there and lecture for the 50 minutes. He'd toss out a few nuggets and then wanted us to discuss it among ourselves. He just sit back and smile a Cheshire cat smile and stayed out of it until we invited him in. Whenever we'd ask him for his opinion he'd put it back on us. I LOVED that class so much. My second favorite class that I ever took was a night school class in LOGIC. I loved the beauty and simplicity of it. It energized me and excited me that something so simple was so profound. I haven't changed. Those are still my two favorite things to think about and talk about. Some folks have no interest in either one and that confounds me all the time. If A is equal to B and B is equal to C then A is equal to C. How otherwise elsewise could it be? Thank you for your reply tom! :)
Heard it as a helicopter rather than a plane. Not sure a plane could work without unavailable special rigging---and a float plane would probably not be realistic either.
Benedict Arnold 