Discussion » Questions » History » The first American Civil War was about slavery. Conflict between them that wanted it and them that didn't. Aren't we still fighting it?
RosieG

The first American Civil War was about slavery. Conflict between them that wanted it and them that didn't. Aren't we still fighting it?

There are folks who say/believe African Americans were better off as slaves and happier too. But isn't that basis of the RACISM in America? Those who preferred the way things used be when slavery was a way of life and they will never get over the indignity of having an African American who is good enough and smart enough to be president. Never. They will continue to try to disenfranchise him until they die.  

Posted - October 15, 2016
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Responses


  • 1615
    Americans have more opportunities than anywhere in the world but you have to have the ambition to go after them.  
      October 15, 2016 1:49 PM MDT
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  • 628
    Hello there Rosie.
    I don't think an insistence on the return of slavery is necessary to qualify as a racist.
    Most "ists", "isms" and "phobes" are more a sense of superiority over that of whom you hold your views.
    This is true for Racists, Sexists, Homophobes, you name it, It comes in all shapes, sizes and colors.

    So Yes, we are still at war, but it aint over slavery anymore. It is over everything.
    It seems as though just about everyone describes one group or another as "deplorable"
    Just look at what we call each other based on what we are and what we believe.
    White man= greedy
    Black man= thug
    Gay = pervert
    Christian=nut job
    Muslim= terrorist
    Republican= deplorable
    Democrat=Devil
    and so on and so on...

    Having said that, Yes there is also a sort of race war going on.
    Though we as a society no longer seek ownership of a group of people, we certainly seek control.
    We see this through the "war on drugs" which has seen a disproportionate amount of black man fall as causalities
    We see this in the welfare and housing programs, which corral people into areas that don't receive the resources they should.
    Disparities in education, employment and investment. 
    I find the first remark in your description, "There are folks who say/believe African Americans were better off as slaves and happier too" to be comparable to the Rapist claiming "she enjoyed it..."

    I will give you an example, and solution to what the biggest effect of racism in America is, in my opinion.
    I offer up the town of East Palo Alto, here in the bay area.
    EPA, as it is referred to has always been the "wrong side of the tracks". It was a black community just over the highway from one of the wealthiest places in the country. It was quite the juxtaposition to drive down university ave, in Palo Alto, past its trendy downtown, through the residential portion which consisted of big, beautiful homes of every style. These are multi million dollar homes. As you approach the 101 freeway the last house is a gorgeous Mediterranean. Once you cross over 101 you were in a different world. The first place you would see was "Whiskey gulch" broken down liquor stores and motels, It wasn't a good place to be.
    Past that were the apartment housing units and Nairobi village. This place was right out of the third world. Shootings were a regular occurrence.
    Over the years, efforts were made. These efforts including busing students from EPA into the wealthy neighborhoods of Palo Alto, Menlo Park and Atherton. I was a student at Menlo Atherton High school when they closed Ravenswood High, in EPA and brought many to Menlo Atherton. This did not go over very well, weeks of riots and fights.
    Most of the efforts by the city of Palo Alto were nothing more than giving a baby a pacifier.
    There were a few community activists that had a different vision. Instead of relying on what scraps were thrown their way, they decided they could do better on heir own. They fought for years and were able to get EPA incorporated as their own city.
    They didn't want to be shipped to the good schools, they wanted their own.
    It has been a few decades now and EPA certainly isn't the town it used to be. Whiskey gulch is now shining with brand new buildings, property values have gone up, schools have improved, crime has gone way down.
    EPA now has its own schools and its own police force, made up of those who mostly live in the community.
    Parks have been built, roads have been improved.
    EPA was relegated to sitting outside a locked door while those inside made the decisions on how much they would receive once they themselves divided up the pie. Now EPA sits at that same table, refusing to be ignored and fighting for their community.

    So I guess that is what it takes, getting rid of the labels and bringing everybody to the table...
    And as always m;dear.....
    Have a wonderful day.




    X
      October 15, 2016 3:14 PM MDT
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  • 3934
    The above is a Finalist in this year's Correlation = Causation Fallacy Awards.

    The heavy doses of Hand Waving, Unspecificed Actors, Colorful Metaphor, Wishful Thinking, and Personal Anecdote were well-regarded by the judges....;-D...
      October 15, 2016 3:43 PM MDT
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  • 628
    Jeez OldSchool you are right...
    I forgot to throw in a random Ni**er, and Fu&%ing Hadji...bet that would have pleased the judges, seeing as that is the judges go to reaction to everything...maybe next time ill just post a picture of a cat...
    I take these questions and I write my feelings. I use the question often times to explore and define my feelings. I use example and anecdote. I am not writing a thesis on EPA and all the intricacies that were involved. I simply used it as an example to what I think...

      October 15, 2016 4:34 PM MDT
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  • 628


    Whiskey gulch 30 years ago, and today...anecdote???
      October 15, 2016 4:44 PM MDT
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  • 113301
    That is definitely an improvement des. Thank you for providing proof of what you said. A picture is worth a thousand words unless the viewer is blind. Then he/she would have to take your word for it!  Those who trust you will. Those who don't won't. :)
      October 16, 2016 2:02 AM MDT
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  • 3934
    @dmis -- My use of N*gg*r and F***ING HADJI is anything but random.

    It is used when lampooning rationalizations for policies (actual or proposed) which are, in truth, based upon hatred and bigotry.

    If you use AM questions to "explore your feelings" about whether or not the Moon is made of Green Cheese, and you decide you feel the Moon IS made of Green Cheese, you are empirically incorrect, no matter how deeply, strongly, and prosocially you feel otherwise.

    Attributing the changes in East Palo Alto to a feel-good narrative where the residents appying for incorporation and "coming together" produced profound change (while ignoring the MASSIVE influx of capital from high-tech firms who were priced out of other SF Bay Area cities) is almost certainly similarly empirically bogus.

    Localities such as Detroit and East Saint Louis have been incorporated for decades, yet they didn't have the same recent influx of capital East Palo Alto did. How are those localities doing? Yeah...that's right.

    About the only thing the city of East Palo Alto has to teach us about race relations is that when rich people displace poor people in a particular area, crime in that area goes down and property values go up. That is a revelation on the par of water is wet.
      October 15, 2016 4:47 PM MDT
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  • 628
    Hello again OldSchool...
    Your closing statement sums it up pretty well...
    That it is only rich people displacing poor people that will save a city is a fairly limited view.
    I happen to think there is much more involved. I do argue the merits of making something ones own.
    Giving communities more local control. EPA still doesn't have a high school through the district, but they have a couple of good charter high schools...
    EPA hasn't improved because minorities have been forced out, in fact there has been a significant rise in the Hispanic population there.



      October 16, 2016 1:06 AM MDT
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  • 113301
    Wow des! Thank you for a very thoughtful analysis of where we are today with a specific example. My son attended Cal Berkeley and then lived in northern California for about 10 years so I got to visit there a lot. Of course when I visited we never went to the area of which you speak. But I always knew it was there. I'm glad things are better now. At least on the surface, But you know what they say my friend....unless we change hearts and minds of people it's just window dressing. Well maybe "they" don't say that but that's what it seems like to me. You get a group like Black Lives Matter which is formed  specifically because of the high incidence of unarmed young black men being killed by cops. Then the floodgates open and everyone who doesn't have a clue comes out of the woodwork and says "all lives matter" which has nothing whatsoever to do with the point the Black Lives Matter people are trying to make. I honestly don't know if people are that obtuse or just don't give a rat's a**. In our country victims are regularly victimized.  A woman says she was raped and some folks say it was her fault because of the way she was dressed or that she is lying and just wants her 15 minutes of fame or money or both. Every unarmed young black man  killed by cop  was killed by a cop who uses the standard defense "I feared for my life" and killer cop walks. The same coming-out-of-the-woodwork folks blame the young man. They always find a way to blame the dead young man. Always. If that  doesn't disgust you and bring you to the brink of despair I don't know what will. Here's to a better future made up of better people. Problem is how will changing hearts and minds be effected when it's is only the choir who hears the music? Everyone else is tone deaf and just hears static. Happy Sunday m'dear!  :)
      October 16, 2016 1:57 AM MDT
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  • 628
    Good morning Rosie.
    You are exactly right, it is going to take a change in attitudes.
    First thing is we have to stop looking at people as groups and look at the individual.
    We have to drop our fears. One of the answers touted the opportunities afforded everyone here. Well that is easy to say when you
    don't get looked at differently when you get on an elevator, or you get pulled over for what you look like. It is easy to say when you got the benefit of a good school or a safe neighborhood. Not so easy to say if you feel you have been pushed to the side.
    When I think of any one of the victims of police shootings, I don't think of the several minutes they experienced before they were shot. Ithink of their entire life circumstances that brought them to that moment. What opportunity in life was Mr. Brown, or Mr. Grey afforded. Were they offered a decent education, were they offered a job or any place in society, most likely not. So not only did their lives not matter when they were shot, their lives haven't mattered since birth.
    This has to change. It aint gonna change with "stop and frisk" or by bringing in more police or a military type presence.
    It will change with education and a sense of community. I think education is the key. We must invest in good schools for everyone.
    Think of how different Michael Browns life could have been had he been given a good education from childhood. If his community was safe and had opportunity, if his life had mattered.
    It is sad that people only saw him for his last few minutes of life and say he was a thug. I see the child who years before probably dreamed of being more, perhaps a fireman or doctor .






      October 16, 2016 9:41 AM MDT
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  • 17596
    http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/causes-of-the-civil-war/

    This might help you.
      October 15, 2016 6:20 PM MDT
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  • 46117
    The first Civil War was NOTHING compared to the many UNCIVIL wars we waged against the American Indian who was here first.  We got what was coming to us and still are getting what is coming.    Unless and until we stop waging any war, we are going to stay on this insane wheel. 
      October 16, 2016 9:54 AM MDT
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