Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » A Mugger says "God did not create himself". If not WHO DID? WHAT DID? WHY?

A Mugger says "God did not create himself". If not WHO DID? WHAT DID? WHY?

Posted - March 6, 2021

Responses


  • 33842
    God has always existed. 
      March 6, 2021 5:56 AM MST
    1

  • 10560
    We cannot measure God by our own standards.  He isn't confined to the confines and laws of this creation.  He is outside of it.  That is a concept which our minds can't fathom.  We try to see Him as we are - physical and time bound.    He is neither.  
      March 6, 2021 1:58 PM MST
    3

  • 113301
    I thought GOD made man in HIS own image? HE didn't? That's a new one on me. Thank you for your reply Shuhak. :)
      March 7, 2021 2:45 AM MST
    1

  • 10560
    That's not what I said. 
      March 7, 2021 11:50 AM MST
    2

  • 113301
    Ya got me. Now I am completely confused. This reply to what I said to what you said to what I said does not compute. My fault I expect. Thank you anyway. I don't have to understand things to appreciate them. Thankfully.
      March 8, 2021 3:48 AM MST
    1

  • 10560

    Yes, God made man in His image. 

    Most people assume that means God made us to look like Him (as in physical appearance).  Yet, Jesus says God is a spirit.  God said He made man out of the dust of the ground.  Science confirms that our bodies are indeed made up of the same elements that make up the ground.  We know that when a person dies, their body eventually becomes "dust", meaning it decomposes into the ground.  The bible also says that when a person dies, their "spirit" returns to God.  If the One who crated us says we have something, then we must have it. 

    What is our "spirit"?  The word spirit comes from the Latin word “spirare” meaning “breathe”.  We know that when a person stops breathing, they die (after a certain amount of time).  Their body is no longer animated (there’s no movement, no voice).  The “person” that was inside of it is no longer there.  We know that a dead body is useless, so we bury them, burn them, dump the in the ocean, or even chop them up.  The bible says that “breath” (spirit) returns to God who made it.  As far as I know, no one has ever seen that “breath” (spirit).  We watch people die all the time, yet we have never physically seen that “breath”.

    My point is we ARE made in the image of God.  We, like Him, are a spirit.  Of course, it doesn’t end there.  God only said “let Us make MAN in our image”.  God didn’t say that about horses or bees; flowers or trees…only people.  (I could do a dissertation on ancient Hebrew words and meanings, but long story short - the term “man” includes women.)  We can see from the universe around us that God is very creative.  We too are very creative – art, literature, music, architecture, and more.  Animals can build hones for themselves, but none of those can compare to what humans can create.  The bible says God is love.  Humans have the ability to love … passionately.  A cow can’t, neither can a tree.  The bible shows that God has wide range of complex emotions.  We too have a wide range of complex emotions.  A mountain doesn’t, nor does a blade of grass. 

    Yes, God made man in His image… but that “image” is a lot more that we might think.

      March 8, 2021 1:32 PM MST
    2

  • 16630
    It can't be physical, everybody is different and people are changing - getting taller, the appendix and least toe are becoming smaller (the former is already vestigial, hominids have never made cellulose a major part of their diet). Genesis is not even internally consistent, 1:27 is flatly contradicted by 2:22.
    It's also debatable whether mankind was made in the image of "God" or "gods", given that the Hebrew used in the text is quite definitely the plural "Elohim". Angels are often depicted as human in form (at least the messengers used to communicate with mankind - like "a young man" (Mk 16:5)). Are we formed as God, or as the Heavenly host?
      March 8, 2021 2:01 PM MST
    1

  • 113301
    :):):)
      March 9, 2021 3:47 AM MST
    0

  • 10560
    The verses aren't contradictory, Genesis 1:27 is more of a general statement, whereas Genesis 2 goes into more detail.  Like "Howard swan on Tuesday" and "Howard did the backstroke in the waters off the coast of Aruba on Tuesday".

    Yes it is the plural. That's what it was translated "Let US make...".  
    Yes, Elohim is translated "angels" in some passages.  

    I can't flat out say exactly who the "us" in Gen. 1:27 is referring to, as the bible doesn't actually say.  Maybe God and angels have the same "image".  I only know what God has revealed about Himself.  And going by that, we are more like God than we are of any angel in the bible.
     
      March 9, 2021 11:28 AM MST
    0

  • 16630
    Actually they are, 1:27 has God creating them male and female, at the same time, on the same day, by decree. Chapter 2 has an anthropomorphic God needing to use patty-paws, doing Eve much later almost as an afterthought. This is what happens when you get different authors (NONE of the Torah was written by Moses, none of it is that old with the possible exception of the Song of Miriam - it was set in its final form during the Babylonian exile, the Biblical account of the Flood was lifted almost word-for-word from the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh). Genesis was gleaned from at least four sources, and cobbled together by the Levite priests. This post was edited by Slartibartfast at March 9, 2021 8:05 PM MST
      March 9, 2021 3:48 PM MST
    0

  • 113301
    Thank you for your lengthy detailed reply Shuhak. To be honest with you I'm not sure what this is in response to. Maybe I'm particularly thickheaded so for that I apologize. :)
      March 9, 2021 3:46 AM MST
    1

  • 10560
    The verses aren't contradictory, Genesis 1:27 is more of a general statement, whereas Genesis 2 goes into more detail.  Like "Howard swan on Tuesday" and "Howard did the backstroke in the waters off the coast of Aruba on Tuesday".

    Yes it is the plural. That's what it was translated "Let US make...".  
    Yes, Elohim is translated "angels" in some passages.  

    I can't flat out say exactly who the "us" in Gen. 1:27 is referring to, as the bible doesn't actually say.  Maybe God and angels have the same "image".  I only know what God has revealed about Himself.  And going by that, we are more like God than we are of any angel in the bible.
      March 8, 2021 5:00 PM MST
    1

  • 113301
    So this is in response to the reply by SBF and not in reply to the question I asked? Otherwise it is very confusing.
      March 9, 2021 3:50 AM MST
    0

  • 10560
    My bad.   It was a reply to a comment made by Slartibartfast.  It took me so long to write that I guess AM kicked it to a regular reply.


    This post was edited by Shuhak at March 9, 2021 11:31 AM MST
      March 9, 2021 11:28 AM MST
    1

  • 113301
    Not at all. Believe it or not this happens to me quite a lot! No worries my friend! Thank you for your reply! :)
      March 9, 2021 11:31 AM MST
    1