When? Do you mean via the sacrifice of Jesus? Anyway forgiveness seems to have come too late to have saved the world from sin, suffering and death if God did forgive Adam and Eve.
Romans 5:12 - therefore just as sin entered the world through one man and death through one man....
If God did forgive Adam and Eve then sin, suffering and death should never have entered the world.
When your child does something wrong and you punish them, does that somehow mean you do not forgive them?
Yes, sin, suffering and death all entered because of their actions.
They ate the fruit. It was a sin. (Sin entered) It happened their is no going back in time.
Because they ate the fruit they could no longer remain in the Garden. (suffering entered).
Because they were no longer in the Garden, they could no longer eat from the tree of life. (Death entered)
But God the Father did indeed forgive them.
Think of a friend who you have house sitting. (They are in you house taking care of it for you. You tell him "You can have the run of the house , do whatever you want. But I have some tools in the closet that I do not want anyone to touch." You come home and the house looks great BUT your tools are gone. He sold them. He explains how he had to sell them. He owed money and the debt collector was going to kill him. And he still owes more money.
You understand and forgive your friend. But you decide never to allow him in your home.
He sinned. (Sold the tool= ate the fruit) He must leave your home, this makes him sad and it is not as good as staying in your home. (He feels he is suffering = Leaving the Garden) He is not able to steal and sell more of your property...his debtor may still kill him. (He debtors eventually kill him = Adam leaves and dies years later)
"Well I am sorry Mr God ( if You actually do exist) I totally disagree with Your extremely harsh punishment extended to all mankind as well as all other living species because of a man You created was persuaded to commit a disobedience to Your command. 6000 years of sin, suffering and death! Enough is enough."
Amen and amen. Signed RJW aka Kittigate.
This post was edited by Kittigate at November 29, 2021 9:34 AM MST
Sin is our actions. Not God's. We are not robots. We are who do the sins. We have free will in which we get to choice. AND those sins are what cause the suffering. Not God. And yes we all will die now. Sinful people cannot be allowed to be immortal. That would be hell on earth. And again it is our actions not God's.
If the creation story is true then that explains how sin, suffering and death entered the world however I think an all wise, all powerful supposedly merciful and compassionate Creator would had the foresight to avoid Adam and Eve being swayed by the Evil One to commit the damning act of disobedience to bring sin, suffering and death to humans as well all the species of the animal kingdom.
So how did suffering and death come about to be a presence inclusive among all living beings anyway? Fighting, killing and stealing is a primal survival instinct for survival that mankind inherited genetically from our animal ancestors and we also found multiple more means of making wrongful choices as well.
That is the alternative to believing in supernatural creation for persons who do not or even cannot accept existence of a supernatural creator. Any evidence of supernatural existence always amounts to saying 'there MUST be a God BECAUSE...
Yes HE could have. But He would have had to violate there FREE WILL. God does not want robots only He is in charge of, He wants us to worship and obey Him because we want to.
Yes, He knew humans would fall eventually. This is why He planned to send Jesus to save us from our sins.
Jesus had free will. He chose to do His Father's will. As was shown in His prayer in the garden. "If possible, take this cup from Me. But not My will but YOUR will be done."
You are confusing "Knowledge of good and evil" with knowing right from wrong. Neither Adam nor Eve were infants or small children. They had been communing with God Himself. Just as we would not punish a baby for taking another baby's rattle away because they do not know yet....God would not apply a punishment to A&E if they did not know what they did was wrong. We know from Gen 3 that Eve certainly knew it was wrong because she argued with the snake quoting exactly what God had said would happen if they ate from the tree of good and evil. The serpant twisted it and she believed the snake over God. They may not have known the extent the disobedience and lack of trust in God would affect them but they knew it was wrong. You do not argue the point if you do not know.
Eve likely knew 'in her heart' that she should believe God rather than a fearsome talking serpent that she might have felt intimidated by. Anyway when Adam and Eve realized their mistake it's too bad they didn't approach God and confess their misdeed and ask forgiveness. That might have worked to avoid sin suffering and death. What a story!
According to the Christian belief of "Original Sin" ... merely being born inherits sin.
An interesting fact regarding Adam & Eve. Before they ate the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil ... they could not know that it was wrong to disobey God's command NOT to eat it. Only AFTER they committed the sin could they know it was wrong. So they did not knowingly do anything wrong. Thus, the first punishment by God in the Bible, is for somebody doing something they didn't know was wrong.
If he actually existed, Jesus was human. What human being hasn't sinned? And why do you think the saying, "Let he (or she) who is without sin cast the first stone" came to be?
We have no idea of what Jesus did for a period of time from his youth until he made a comeback about in his early 30s. I guess that to believe he committed no sin is just as good as if it were a fact that he remained sinless.
my2cents 