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Discussion » Questions » Death and Dying » Do you think that the Bible, regardless whether or not a person might be 'religious' can be an interesting source for discussions?
Kittigate

Do you think that the Bible, regardless whether or not a person might be 'religious' can be an interesting source for discussions?

Eg.."And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive, but better than both is the one who has never been born for they hath not seen the evil work that is being done under the sun".

How can it make sense that after a life has ended that there can be any feelings to perceive happiness?

Talking about persons who have never been born must be very puzzling. There are multiple trillions who have never been born and never will be born.

Do you think the Bible story writers made stuff up sometimes just to inspire thought?

Posted - February 15, 2022
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Responses


  • 32700
    We all have 2 bodies. A physical one...that will be born and will die.  And a celestial one that may or may not die. Only God the Father can kill that body. 
      February 15, 2022 12:24 PM MST
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  • 13395
    Ecclesiastes makes no mention of the celestial body that only God can kill. I presume that there could be no possibility of happiness in death in the case of judgment where God kills the body.

    However I wonder if I will ever come to a conclusion that a supernatural creator does exist. It would require a significant supernatural event to occur before I could feel convinced; and same for any non-believer.
      February 15, 2022 1:05 PM MST
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  • 32700
    No one has been judged as of yet.   People who have died physically  are now again in their celestial bodies.  And they no longer have to struggle with the evils of life in the natural world. This makes them happier than the living who are still struggling against the evils (oppressions) of this world.   This is in the immediately preceding vs. ECC 4:1


    The celestial (spiritual) and terrestrial (physical) bodies are discussed in 1 Cor 15:40-44. 
    Matt 10:28 tells us not to fear those who can kill physically but to fear the ONE who can kill the soul.   If we are killed there will  be no more happiness or sadness,  we will no longer exist in either body.
      February 15, 2022 1:24 PM MST
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  • 13395
    The alternative to belief in the spiritual/soul is the element of consciousness which scientific research determines that 'consciousness is a fundamental property of matter' which by scientific law cannot be created or destroyed so then our afterlife existence is an infinite state of 'consciousness' where there is no awareness of time, space or material substance -or feelings of any kind.
    But, what, I wonder is any purpose of an eternal existence in this state of consciousness? And the only purpose of a life existence is to eat, reproduce and die.


      February 15, 2022 11:20 PM MST
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  • 32700
    Science has proved the existence of the soul?
    I would be interested to see that study. 

    We purpose of our physical life is to decide who we will follow God or something else. There was a rebellion in Heaven and 1/3 fought against God, 1/3 fought with God and 1/3 did nothing just waited to see who won.   Rather than destroy 2/3 of His creation, we have been given another chance to show God if we are worthy of being in Heaven. If evil beings are allowed into Heaven....it would not be a Heaven. 
      February 16, 2022 4:52 AM MST
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  • 13395
    Consciousness is a fundamental property of physical matter; nothing to be associated with belief in spiritual/supernatural characteristics.

    -New Scientist magazine news article.
      February 16, 2022 11:55 AM MST
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  • 32700
    So you are saying science has proven a rock has consciousness?   Again I would like to see that study. 
      February 16, 2022 3:29 PM MST
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  • 13395
    I said, in reference to a New Scientist article, that 'consciousness is a fundamental property of matter but does not mean that matter has awareness..
    Awareness develops after life begins via evolutionary process.

    About 2500 years ago Mr. Sid Gautama aka The Buddhist man of great wisdom spoke of consciousness:

    Consciousness exists in the stone
    Sleeps in the plant
    And awakens in the animal

    I been trying to find the NS article regarding consciousness being a fundamental property of matter but it is elusive, however I will let you know.
      February 16, 2022 6:55 PM MST
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  • 13395
    The item I been trying to find is just a paragraph in a large article among MANY scientific research articles on the subject of consciousness. There is a multitude of various properties of matter including consciousness and gravity. Consciousness is a force also which can enable a placebo to be effective when a person's mind is suitably inspired. Mind, consciousness matter connection.
      February 17, 2022 10:53 PM MST
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  • 32700
    So it is a theory but no scientific studies behind it.  

      February 18, 2022 6:06 AM MST
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  • 13395
    There seems to be no scientific test to prove that consciousness exists in matter.
    If God created the universe (of himself) then there should be a spiritual nature existing in all matter. That is what some cultures do believe.

    The concept of consciousness has been bugging people for.more than 2000 years: "what is consciousness"? This post was edited by Kittigate at February 18, 2022 9:18 AM MST
      February 18, 2022 8:35 AM MST
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  • 13395
    Our senses enable us to develop the condition of conscious awareness via the mind/brain and our material body has the property of consciousness which is a force, apart from the condition of being conscious.

    That is what I gather. This post was edited by Kittigate at February 18, 2022 11:24 PM MST
      February 18, 2022 7:40 PM MST
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  • 32700
    That was my point their is no scientific test for things like consciousness or spiritual matters. 
      February 19, 2022 5:56 AM MST
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  • 13395
    Scientists are aware that there is an invisible force that can make a placebo treatment effective to make a change in a person's body to provide a healing effect. That phenomenon is something that could demonstrate that consciousness, being a property of matter, exists as a force. This post was edited by Kittigate at February 20, 2022 7:33 AM MST
      February 19, 2022 9:33 AM MST
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  • 44236
    Awfully wordy.
      February 16, 2022 3:37 PM MST
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  • 32700
    Sometimes it is necessary to be wordy. I do try to keep it shorter for most posts.  :)
      February 16, 2022 3:43 PM MST
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  • 6023
    Anything CAN be an "interesting source for discussions".
    The Bible
    Mein Kampf
    The Communist Manifesto
    The Quran

    Well, you get the picture.
    The problem is when people try to take their opion, based on someone's teachings or writings, and force everyone to follow it.
    Especially teachings that are clearly designed to divide society to the point of mass murder.

    No - The Bible was not designed to inspire thought.
    It was designed to keep the masses subservient.

      February 15, 2022 12:35 PM MST
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  • 13395
    "Designed to keep the masses subservient" that's quite a good observation.
      February 15, 2022 1:13 PM MST
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  • 44236
    And worthy of lengthy discussions. Just don't try to argue with JWs and other Bible-thumpers.
      February 15, 2022 1:22 PM MST
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  • 44236
    You said it better than I could.
      February 15, 2022 1:21 PM MST
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  • 19942
    I believe the Bible was written mostly by men who did not have the knowledge that we have today.  They couldn't explain certain phenomena, i.e., eclipses, so they invented mystical gods and reasons for why these things happened.  Then, a group of slightly more educated persons realized that they could capitalize on that and use "religion" to keep the masses in check.  To this day, even with all the knowledge that we have since biblical times, there are people willing to believe that all manner of evil will befall them, by something or "someone" they can't see and can't hear, if they don't act or conduct themselves in a particular way.  That kind of power and control leads certain religious leaders to commit certain acts upon those they believe are subservient to them, i.e., priests taking sexual advantage of children.
      February 15, 2022 2:15 PM MST
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  • 13395
     People can become confused so they are not sure what or who to believe, so they'll adhere to the person who seems to be the greatest influence in their lives.
      February 15, 2022 2:56 PM MST
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  • 19942
    That is because they are either too young to make their own decisions or they have been brainwashed by others.
      February 15, 2022 3:05 PM MST
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  • 13395
    Yep.
      February 15, 2022 3:07 PM MST
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