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my2cents

Is there a way to overturn a Presidential pardon/commutation?

Biden is issuing more acts of pardoning clemency like no President (in recent history) before him  
More pardons than all others combined.  

He is commuting death row inmates to life in prison.
(37 of 40)

**edited to correct terms and removed incorrect graph)

Posted - December 24, 2024
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Responses


  • 3878
    "The U.S. Constitution states, "The President … shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment." (U.S. Const., art. II, § 2, cl. 1.) This language gives the president broad pardoning power, with very few limitations. (Schick v. Reed, 419 U.S. 256 (1974).) Moreover, the pardon power is the president's alone—the president's decision to grant a pardon cannot be overturned by Congress or the courts."

    https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/presidential-pardon-powers-and-limits.html
      December 24, 2024 8:51 AM MST
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  • 11143
    I believe your source is incorrect.  Carter pardoned over 200K drafted dodgers after the Vietnam War.  Confederate soldiers also got pardons, but I don't recall the number or which president.

    Biden did issue a blanket pardon for certain marijuana convictions, which accounts for over 6000 of his pardons.

    But when it comes to individual pardons, Biden had less than half of Trump or Obama.

    Commutation is not a pardon. Biden is opposed to the death penalty and is following his conscience, especially since Trump said he would speed up executions. I have no opinion on this.
      December 24, 2024 9:22 AM MST
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  • 3878
    Thank you.  The question, however, unless I misread it, is whether a pardon can be overturned.  In the case of Carter, he didn't overturn pardons - he initiated them.  Am I reading this wrong?

    No, commutation is not a pardon.  The distinction is missed by some. This post was edited by Spunky at December 24, 2024 12:59 PM MST
      December 24, 2024 12:45 PM MST
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  • 11143
    No, you are correct. I was just looking for an explanation of how Biden supposedly issued more pardons than all other presidents combined, given the fact that the last number I heard, was, I believe, 65. It makes sense to not count Carters blanket pardon, but the number shown for Biden then shouldn't include blanket pardons either. So, I am puzzled. 
      December 24, 2024 4:08 PM MST
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  • 3878
    Understood, but we both know the reason that graph was posted is because the green line for Biden is the longest.  Merry Christmas. :)
      December 24, 2024 6:45 PM MST
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  • 34507
    The Dept of Justice has the stats and they do not count pardons/communtations/etc that are issued via executive orders or Presidential proclamations, so Ford and Carters are not in the stats. 

    So if that is the case, Biden's blanket pardon for pot violations would not be counted in his numbers.
      December 24, 2024 3:08 PM MST
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  • 11143
    The numbers from the DOJ do not match your source, so I am puzzled at the assertion of more Biden pardons than all others combined. 



    This post was edited by Jane S at December 24, 2024 6:45 PM MST
      December 24, 2024 3:52 PM MST
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  • 34507
     Chart only counting individual acts acts of clemency:



    Chart including blanket pardons:

    So you are correct the original chart was not comparing apples to apples.  
    But both Obama and Biden have issued more clemencies than Trump.  
    And Biden is now out of office yet. This post was edited by my2cents at December 25, 2024 6:37 AM MST
      December 25, 2024 5:32 AM MST
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  • 131
    You'd think Trump would have issued more clementine, given his hue. 
      December 25, 2024 6:02 AM MST
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  • 11143
    Clemancies are not all pardons. Biden did commute the sentences of 1500 people who had been on home detention for over a year and met other criteria for rehabilitation and reintegration. Plus the 6000 pardons for the use or simple possession of marijuana. Most of Obama's commutation were for non-violent drug offenses that got very harsh sentences during the so-called war on drugs. Trump's criminal justice reform would seem to align with these acts of clemancy, although his commutations were not at the same level. 
      December 25, 2024 8:50 AM MST
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  • 34507
    I know he at this point has a lower amount of pardons. (63) But he is not out of office yet. And not all of his clemency was directed at non violent criminals.  There was a triple murderer who was released.  And two others that should not be allowed free or reduced sentences (not even addressing the death row immates) 
      December 26, 2024 3:38 AM MST
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  • 11143
    I haven't heard this before. I would love to see a source, I haven't been able to find it on this list of commutatations. Am I missing something? 

    https://www.justice.gov/pardon/commutations-granted-president-joseph-biden-2021-present This post was edited by Jane S at December 26, 2024 8:18 AM MST
      December 26, 2024 7:50 AM MST
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  • 34507
    Josephine Virginia Gray murder 2 husbands and a boyfriend for insurance. She was convicted of insurance fraud and recieved a long enough sentence the prosecutor did not go to trial for the murders because she would certainly die in prison. 
    Another diluted cancer meds from people's treatments. 
    And William Conahan a judge who took cash bribes from a juvenile detention center to send them kids. 

    I am sure there are others.... This post was edited by my2cents at December 27, 2024 10:21 AM MST
      December 26, 2024 6:13 PM MST
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  • 11143
    The link in my previous post is to a complete list of Biden pardons and commutations. I searched for Virginia Gray and did not find it. Nor could I find William Conahan. Neither case came up in an internet search either. May I ask where you got this information, so that I can verify? The official list only goes through 12/23/24, so if these are later than last Monday, they wouldn't be listed.

    https://www.justice.gov/pardon/commutations-granted-president-joseph-biden-2021-present
      December 26, 2024 9:47 PM MST
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  • 3878

    One reason you may not have found anything about Virginia Gray is because her name is JOSEPHINE Gray.  

    "Josephine Gray, a grandmother who was known for wearing flashy clothing, was put behind bars for 40 years in 2002 for insurance fraud relating to the deaths of three men between 1974 and 1996."

    https://nypost.com/2024/12/20/us-news/black-widow-freed-via-bidens-historic-clemency-initiative-leaves-former-prosecutor-pissed/

    The reason you couldn't find anything on William Conahan is probably because his name is MICHAEL T. Conahan.  

    "Conahan and former Luzerne County President Judge Mark Ciavarella took part in a conspiracy that netted them $2.8 million, according to their federal indictment. They facilitated the construction of juvenile detention centers and expansion of another by agreeing to send convicted juveniles to them in exchange for the cash, according to the indictment."

    https://www.wvia.org/news/local/2024-12-12/biden-commutes-sentence-of-luzerne-county-kids-for-cash-scandal-judge-conahan

    This post was edited by Spunky at December 27, 2024 8:37 AM MST
      December 27, 2024 8:36 AM MST
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  • 11143
    Thank you. Michael Conahan is one of the 1500 who were on home confinement. I can't find Josephine Gray, but she might have multiple names. That blanket pardon doesn't list crimes, so I can't cross-reference. I assume these commutations were vetted by the Office of the Pardons Attorney rather than by Biden personally. I am not going to justify them, but I'm really not bothered either.

    Edit. I stand corrected. There were two batches of commutations on the same document based on the date of commutation. Josephine Gray was in the second group. This post was edited by Jane S at December 27, 2024 10:54 AM MST
      December 27, 2024 9:34 AM MST
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  • 3878
    Hope you had a Merry Christmas.
      December 27, 2024 10:41 AM MST
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  • 34507
    I don't know what happened there.  I was trying to post while also doing other things.  
    Virginia is the woman's middle name. 

    I read it on more than one site.  I think I just copied it incomplete. 

    Not sure about the judge. I am looking at my history to see if it was the site or me. 

    Found it. The site made the error. 

    .https://freebeacon.com/biden-harris-administration/black-widow-who-murdered-3-ex-lovers-freed-in-bidens-historic-clemency-spree/



    This post was edited by my2cents at December 27, 2024 11:44 AM MST
      December 27, 2024 11:34 AM MST
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  • 17620
    Presidental pardons and commutations cannot be overturned.  
      December 24, 2024 1:17 PM MST
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  • 16845
    Recent history evidently means since 2021, given that he's issued fewer pardons than His Royal Orangeness. More than a few commutations, that's a conscience decision. He's opposed to the death penalty, but those sentences were commuted to life - they're not getting out.
    I'm opposed to the death penalty myself, it's too final. A jury can get it wrong. Rubin Carter is one example, Ronald Ryan another - Ryan was later proven innocent of the murder he was hanged for. A man wrongfully sentenced to life imprisonment can sue. A dead one can't.
      December 25, 2024 6:55 AM MST
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  • 34507
    I am fine with the death penalty in cases where there is on doubt of the crime.

    If it is simply he doesn't believe in the death penalty, then why not give clemency to all of them? 
    He has  fewer pardons than Trump at the moment but he still has a month to go. 
      December 26, 2024 3:52 AM MST
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  • 11143
    I always find it ironic when people call themselves pro-life and also back the death penalty. Or want to cut the budget, without realizing how expensive execution is compared to life without parole. If the death penalty had any effect as a deterrent, I could understand it, but there is no evidence for that. But arguments for and against it are usually not based on practical reasons.
      December 27, 2024 6:45 AM MST
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  • 34507
    But it not ironic that anti death penalty people are so worried about killing an innocent criminal but with killing innocent unborn babies.   

    Death penalty should only be used for murders were there is no question of guilt (DNA/video/etc) and no possibility of manslaughter etc. 

    I am not pro-life by the way, I am anti-abortion. 

    I am for protecting the innocent.
      December 27, 2024 10:11 AM MST
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  • 11143
    It's difficult to post when some members think every comment is directed at them. If you do not call yourself pro-life, then this had nothing to do with you. Also pro-choice is not synonymous with anti-death penalty. Thank you for understanding. 
      December 27, 2024 10:36 AM MST
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