Discussion»Questions»Politics» The cast of Hamilton made a protest.. Trump tweets it's UNFAIR.. UNFAIR???? Does he have a CLUE about the 1st Amendment???
They were very polite and eloquent. It was amazingly fair.
Good for them. It would be so nice if every place in America that The PET and his PET of vice visted, had people who would address them and treat them both in the exact same manner.
He acts like this is reality tv and he is the director. This is REAL LIFE BEOTCH.
I wouldn't be surprised if those people who stood up for themselves find themselves without careers in the near future. Just far enough in the future that no one will pin it on the PET and his pet.
This post was edited by WM BARR . =ABSOLUTE TRASH at November 21, 2016 7:33 AM MST
What you illustrate here is a very disturbing and hypocritical bit of left wing psychology. Whenever the right criticizes someone's behavior, you think they're attacking the person's rights. Just because someone has the LEGAL RIGHT to do something, doesn't mean they SHOULD nor does it make it FAIR.
The left can't distinguish between social pressure (coming from society) and legal mandate (coming from the state). Hypocritically, you seem fine with left exerting social pressure on people to behave a certain way, but when the right does it to the left it's statist authoritarian oppression.
When the KKK say something racist, do you feel you're taking their 1st amendment rights by heckling them? No, of course you don't. You're just too self righteous to see the blatant double standard in how you behave versus how you expect others to behave toward you.
That actor has a first amendment, but so does Trump. Personally, I think Trump was very restrained. I think that stage actor is a piece of sh*t who should shut his mouth. They took Pence's money to ENTERTAIN HIM and feel entitled to talk sh*t about him from the stage. What a f***ing disgrace!
This post was edited by Zeitgeist at November 21, 2016 6:43 PM MST
The main reason I talk politics online is to study the psychology of leftists. I was fascinated to learn why people who are neither retarded nor psychopathic could be so wrong. I have to hand to you, you're a particular interesting specimen. You're an perfect textbook example of what I call the Intuition Deficient Pseudo Intellectual Egotist.
It's kind of a version of dunning kruger, but instead of the lack of intelligence preventing you from seeing how uniformed you are, it's pride and lack of intuition.
Your lack of intuition makes you completely dependent on analyzing data to see reality. Though because you have no intuition you can't sense most of your data is fake. Since you have no hard evidence it's fake, you gullibly believe it. It causes you to see all your conclusions as rational when really they all rest on misplaced faith.
You're the kind of person who would have looked at polling data a few months ago, confidently predicted Trump has no chance and laughed in someone's face when they said he would win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfqVih7IFlI
This post was edited by Zeitgeist at November 21, 2016 6:45 PM MST
"The left can't distinguish between social pressure (coming from society) and legal mandate (coming from the state)." -- Prejudical negative stereotype
"Hypocritically, you seem fine with left exerting social pressure on people to behave a certain way, but when the right does it to the left it's statist authoritarian oppression." -- Hyperbolic straw man
"When the KKK say something racist, do you feel you're taking their 1st amendment rights by heckling them? No, of course you don't." -- Nonsense straw man. The 1st amendment prohibits government sanction against speech, not private criticism of speech.
"You're just too self righteous to see the blatant double standard in how you behave versus how you expect others to behave toward you." -- Prejudicial negative stereotype unsupported by ANY evidence
"I think that stage actor is a piece of sh*t who should shut his mouth." -- Ad hominem attack
"They took Pence's money to ENTERTAIN HIM and feel entitled to talk sh*t about him from the stage. What a f***ing disgrace!" -- Ad hominem, authoriarian appeal to money exchange abriging fundamental speech rights, and also factually inaccurate
"You're an perfect textbook example of what I call the Intuition Deficient Pseudo Intellectual Egotist. " -- Without defining your terms, this is an ad hominem description roughly equivalent to "TEH STOOPID EBIL LIBRUHLZ IS STOOPID...AND EBIL!"
"Your lack of intuition makes you completely dependent on analyzing data to see reality." -- So, because intuitively the world is flat, I should ignore all the data which tells us the world is NOT flat? Say what?
"Though because you have no intuition you can't sense most of your data is fake. Since you have no hard evidence it's fake, you gullibly believe it." -- How does "intution" tell us when empircal data is fake? Is "intution" a magic trick, or divine inspiration, or what?
"You're the kind of person who would have looked at polling data a few months ago, confidently predicted Trump has no chance and laughed in someone's face when they said he would win." -- You have no evidence to support this statement, although I WAS doubtful Trump would win. Of course, one can cherry-pick specific dates "a few months ago" (e.g. right after the Billy Bush videotape) and Trump did indeed seem dead. One could also cherry-pick the few days after the RNC convention when polls had him about tied with HRC and predict he would win.
Re: the Maher video -- Would you like me to post video from Election Night 2012 when Karl Rove was confidently predicting Romney would pull out Ohio and defeat President Obama's reelection? I'm not Bill Maher. I wasn't in his audience. Your video is NOT evidence of anything I personally do.
In short, your entire argument above boils down to "TEH STOOPID EBIL LIBRUHLZ IS STOOPID...AND EBIL!" Of course, calling me STOOPID AND EBIL directly would activate negative social consquences (people would see you for the bigoted RAWF you are), so you cloak your complaints in coded language like "Intuition Deficient" and "piece of s**t who should his mouth" (I guess that last one isn't very coded, is it?...;-D...).
And, of course, in keeping with your Dunning-Kruger condition, you are utterly lacking in self-awareness to realize that you are doing EXACTLY what you purport people on the political left are univerasally guilty of...;-D...
I don't know about that stuff. I'm just a simple patriot. I know the Constitution, though. And if people take advantage of their rights under it, it's ANYTHING but unfair. In fact, it's the opposite of unfair.. It's overwhelmingly PATRIOTIC.. Civil disobedience is the MOST patriotic of events that a citizen can participate in.. If I remember correctly, our country was FOUNDED in dissent..
excon
PS> What? You don't like me calling you names? Well, I don't think people CAN discuss these things WITHOUT insulting the other person.. Don't you agree??
This post was edited by excon at November 21, 2016 3:32 PM MST
The 1st amendment applies to ALL parties in any discussion. Anyone can say anything they want, short of terroristic threats and incitement.
Trump has a first amendment right too. He is not the state. He's a person. He's exercising of his own 1st amendment right. It's a two way street.
Trump calling it "unfair" is a criticism of WHAT they said, not denying their right to say it. If you can't see that distinction, I'm at a loss to explain myself better.
@SmuglyDunningKruger -- On a strictly legalistic level you, me, and excon are probably 100% in agreement. Trump, Pence, the cast of Hamilton, and we three Answermugers all have the LEGAL RIGHT to say what we said.
But Trump responding to the Hamilton cast was unwise. We generally expect our public figures to have thicker skin than Trump has displayed.
Meanwhile, Trump's characterization of the Hamilton cast speech is unwarranted. Given Trump's "Mexicans are rapists/Syrian refugees are terrorists/Women should be grabbed by the crotch" statements, along with his threat to revise libel laws so that he CAN legally attack his critics, the Hamilton cast's plea that Trump/Pence protect and defend ALL people in America was at least germaine.
On the other hand, your characterization of the Hamilton stage actor as ".. a piece of sh*t who should shut his mouth," just indicates what a hateful hypocritical horrible human being you are...;-D....(though I still defend your legal right to say hateful hypocritical horrible things)
I'm not a hypocrite because I haven't violated my own principles. A hypocrite would be someone who asserts insulting people is wrong, while insulting others. I don't have a problem in principle with insults. I believe I have perfect right to insult people and they have a perfect right to insult me. I believe insults are sometimes a necessary part of human conflict. It's all in the game as far as I'm concerned, not some violation of the rules.
Insults are needed to respond to insults, especially passive aggressive insults. When someone accuses you of racism when they KNOW YOU AREN'T, it's not an argument that should be denied calmly and logically but an insult that can be responded to in kind. I'm not going to be defensive in that situation. I'm going to ignore it or counter attack hard.
I'm my judgment the actors don't really fear for the treatment of minorities. They are simply throwing mud and acting as political operatives. It's a smear campaign. I'm therefore going to insult them.
This post was edited by Zeitgeist at November 21, 2016 6:27 PM MST
Re: "A hypocrite would be someone who asserts insulting people is wrong, while insulting others. "
Here is the exact text of what the Hamilton actor said to VP-Elect Pence
"We, sir — we — are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights,” he said. “We truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us."
Gosh, what an insult! They called him "sir" and hoped their show inspired him!
And for that you called the actor "a piece of sh*t who should shut his mouth."
Meanwhile...
"I'm my judgment the actors don't really fear for the treatment of minorities. They are simply throwing mud and acting as political operatives. It's a smear campaign. I'm therefore going to insult them."
In other words...
If YOU express your opinion, it's free speech. If TEH STOOPID EBIL LIBRUHLZ express an opinion, it's throwing mud.
If YOU express your pro-Trump opinion, your a free-thinking free speaking person. If TEH STOOPID EBIL LIBRUHLZ express an opinion, they are "political operatives"
If YOU express a negative opinion about a politician or political view, it's free speech. If TEH STOOPID EBIL LIBRUHLZ express an opinion about a politician or view, it's "a smear campaign"
Funny how consistently you hypocritically interpret the actions of others as justifying your authoritarian desire to insult/diminish/dominate them.
I rest my case...;-D....
This post was edited by OldSchoolTheSKOSlives at November 21, 2016 7:13 PM MST
The tone and content of the speech was extremely passive aggressive. I found it deeply offensive. It would have been less offensive if he had just called him a racist, xenophobic, homophobic, bigoted scumbag.
Just because I believe that I am morally and intellectually right and the left is wrong, doesn't make me a hypocrite. Everyone naturally believes their views are right and fights for what they believe according to their own moral code.
Of course I wish to dominate the left. That is what politics is. This is war. The left is morally and intellectually bankrupt and must be opposed. It's my duty to fight it.
If the left would just openly admit that it wishes to dominate me, I would respect it so much more.
This post was edited by Zeitgeist at November 22, 2016 3:52 AM MST
That people can speak their minds is NOT the issue. It's WHAT Trump tweeted. That's all.
To me, a citizen of these United States enjoying a right under the Constitution is NEVER unfair. By the very nature of the Constitution, enjoying your rights is IMPOSSIBLE to be unfair.. That would include people who enjoy their rights under the 2nd Amendment. Gun ownership may not be good, but it's certainly FAIR..
Trump didn't AGREE with what they SAID, and Trump SHOULD have SAID that.. But, to call the protest itself UNFAIR, is further evidence that he's CONFUSED about the Constitution..
excon
PS> Did you notice that I'm able argue WITHOUT insulting you?? Proly not, huh?
Zeitgeist 