Discussion»Questions»Home and Garden» Truth is expendable. We see that proven daily by all the lies people buy. They embrace it. Why not give them what they want, right?
You've told lies. Didn't you want them to be believed when you told them? After all, that's the purpose of lying; an expectation that it will be accepted as truth. __
Some animals are capable of basic forms of pretense, such as shifting colour to camouflage or playing dead, but humans are the only species capable of purposefully imagining that which does not exist.
Without this capacity, we could not imagine and plan a meal, a house, the solution to a problem, or a work of art, music or science fiction. This same capacity to imagine is the one that enables us to lie.
A child of four who does not lie convincingly well several times a day is considered by psychologists to have a severe intellectual deficiency.
We humans learn to lie for endless reasons - for the sheer fun of it (jokes), to be kind, to be cruel, to dominate, to enrich ourselves, to avoid punishment, even for aesthetics and art.
Probably most of us learn sooner or later realize (hopefully while still children) that lies don't work, that they are the source of all melodrama and pain in relationships and public life.
The truth is not always easy to discern - it can sometimes take hard work to test it.
Many people here would have seen how obvious Trump's inconsistencies were and recognised him as an untrustworthy candidate. But many people liked the jist of what he said - you know the demographics; you've read the statistics. He did his market research; he sold them what they wanted to hear. And most of it was aligned with his real values. They came out in larger numbers than usual to vote for him. In the meantime, the younger generation of Democratic voters did not like Clinton and so, although normally they would have voted, they stayed at home.
We all know that politicians have more motivations to deceive than the average Jo. The lies may be believed to start with, but once the truth is proven, it generally backfires on the liar - so I don't believe that the truth has become expendable. It's just that unfortunately it must constantly be tested. It is not new. It is as old as humanity.
Two relevant films - Billy Connelly's "The Man Who Sued God" and Jim Carey's "Liar, Liar."
This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at November 27, 2016 9:48 PM MST
First of all thank you for the thought and time you gave to responding so completely to my question hartfire. But it is very troubling to me...one sentence especially and I bet you know which one. A child of 4 who does NOT lie convincingly well several times a day is considered to have a severe mental deficiency by psychologists. That it is a sign of mental "rightness" to be a good liar. I cannot believe that. I'm not disputing what you wrote because I know you probably looked it up and can sight irrefutable sources. I'm just saying I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! That doesn't mean it isn't true. It just isn't logical to me that the quality of one's intellect includes the ability to lie convincingly at the age of 4. I know 80% of a child's brain/character is formed by age 3 and by age 6 it is a done deal. Which is why is it so important for parents to TEACH THEIR CHILDREN HOW TO READ before they go to school. All parents should do that. The lazy ones don't. There are some things that are true that I refuse to believe and this is one of them because it would sadden me to think that lies are indicators of something good..intellect. Have a great Sunday m'dear! :)
Mmm... How to put it... The psychological research into how children's brains and mental capacities develop is very extensive, going back as far as Piaget in the 1920's. It is now a vast and comprehensive topic, still with many questions to be explored and answered. Do you remember the phase when at about 18 months to 2 years, a child learns to say "NO!"? Do you remember the temper tantrums when their "no" was not accepted? At that age, they are only just learning the difference between self and other, that others have feelings and needs which may be like or different to theirs at any moment, and learning that there are boundaries or limits to their behaviour. But in the beginning they do not understand this. If they can imagine that something is so, then it is. If they can imagine that something should not-be so, they can compel it to not-be so by wishing and asserting it strongly enough. (The more they win, the more the perception is reinforced.) This is where the root of lying begins. By 3 years, the imagination is becoming very well developed - Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real to them. Fairies might live under mushrooms in the garden. Fairy stories, cartoons, television, acting out the dramas of the adults around them with their toys... all creep into the fantasy life of their play. There is no comprehension that some things are real and others not. But by four, children are starting to see the difference. They have experienced adults, elder siblings and other children lying to them. They are being taught to say thank you when they do not feel gratitude; to say sorry politely and show remorse or regret even when they don't feel it. They are learning not just how to lie politely in the ways society demands, but to do it convincingly. "Show respect for your elders, or else!" - and the result is either obedience, rebellion, or secret rebellion - but the feeling is fear or anger, not respect. I am not saying that this is "right." Nor do psychologists assert that it is "right" in any moral sense - rather, it is simply a normal cognitive developmental phase. By the time they are 7, most normal children have developed a clear idea of what their family and school regards as right and wrong, including an understanding that it is wrong to lie, except for the sake of being polite. At this stage, their morality is simple, concrete, and black and white. This does not mean that they cease lying. Generally, they are becoming much smarter about how and when to tell the truth and what to keep secret. It takes a very skillful parent to encourage and maintain open lines of communication at this stage. They do not understand moral dilemmas, relative situations, or anything unusual or abnormal - and don't begin to develop this until ten and on through teenage years. Teachers are taught all of this as a normal part of their training. It's very easy to look up the research online.
I know you are at peace with your conscience, Rosie, and have no doubt that you did and excellent and exceptional job raising your son. But realistically, there is an awful lot of b*llshit in our Western civilisation, and in human life in general. If you are interested in Radical Honesty, look up Brad Blanton. Or if interested in ways to tell the whole truth without causing offence, try Marshall Rosenberg's Non-Violent Communication.
This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at November 28, 2016 2:36 AM MST
Thank you for another thoughtful, helpful, comprehensive and informative reply m'dear. One thing stands out again. That being polite is lying. Good manners is lying. Being respectful of your elders is lying. Today with a PET leading millions by the nose people are not only allowed but encouraged to be vulgar/gross/rude/insulting. Only one caveat. As long as PET is not the target. Then all He** breaks loose and the blowhard goes on another rant. I think being taught to say thank you and please and exhibiting good manners is sorely needed today. That anyone would connect that to lying? I can't see it. We teach children to consider the feelings of others. How is that a bad thing? When I'm "in a mood" I stay to myself. I don't engage with others because I know what I say is skewed. I try to be polite. If I cannot be polite then I will try very hard to ignore the people who bring out the worst in me. I thank people all the time who have insulted me in the past and been rude to me. Because I refuse to mirror their bad manners. Does that make me a liar too? See how tricky it gets? All of this is very troubling. Unless a lie is told to protect someone or his/her feelings I see no value in it other than badness. People lie to cover their own a**es or to get other people in trouble. That is evil. The reality of life to me is this. We are all in the same boat and we are all headed for the same destination. Trying to make the journey as pleasant as possible seems the only logical thing to do. Lies should not be justified as part of life . In my opinion. Happy Monday hartfire! :)
There it is, clear as day, nothing in morality is ever completely black and white. It is simpler and easier to have the ethics, "first do no harm" and "whenever possible, choose to do what best enhances the well-being of life." Being honest is a part of that, but in such a way that words are not used to cause harm or offense. But that takes particular skills, practise, and experience. Some learn it naturally because they have empathy. We all vary on the scale of degree of empathy, due to the variations in the genetics of our brain's structure and to the way we were raised. I agree with you that there is a lot of rudeness in US culture -- one sees it in American films, serials and reality TV shows, one hears it daily on the news, and it emerges here on aM in the responses of people who get angry and impatient with each other. Unfortunately, bad manners and rudeness are infectious. The boss shames the worker, he goes home and takes it out on his wife, she takes it out on her kids, the kids bash the dog, the dog attacks the one next door, the neighbour gets irrate and demands justice, and the whole cycles starts again and ripples out across the land. We may dislike the way others behave, but if we wish to make a change, it has to start on the inside of ourselves, with our own speech and behaviour towards everyone around us. And if we do lose our cool and misbehave, apologise and recommit to practising the compassionate path.
This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at November 28, 2016 1:39 PM MST
Benedict Arnold 