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He came to save people from the judgement that is due upon them for their transgressions against the Message of God..
When people are saved that are saved from the eternal Lake of fire..
look, He didn't even know why He came and it certainly was NOT to save anyone. More to make us accountable for our own souls in the eyes of God and to repent for our sins so that we may come to know God as he did
The sole mission of Jesus was to preach the kingdom of God.
Jesus said "I must PREACH THE KINGDOM OF GOD to other cities also: FOR THEREFORE AM I SENT" [Luke 4:43]
He never said that he had been sent to die for sins of souls
It doesn't say that was the sole mission of Jesus. How can you expect to understand the Bible when you don't believe in the Bible?
(Isaiah 53:3-5) He was despised and was avoided by men, A man who was meant for pains and was familiar with sickness. It was as if his face were hidden from us. He was despised, and we held him as of no account. 4 Truly he himself carried our sicknesses, And he bore our pains. But we considered him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. 5 But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, And because of his wounds we were healed.
(Daniel 9:24-27)
(Matthew 20:28) Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”
(Mark 10:45) For even the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”
(Luke 2:30) because my eyes have seen your means of salvation
(Luke 19:10) For the Son of man came to seek and to save what was lost.”
(Luke 15:4) “What man among you with 100 sheep, on losing one of them, will not leave the 99 behind in the wilderness and go after the lost one until he finds it?
(John 1:29) The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and he said: “See, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
(John 6:51) I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”
(1 John 2:1, 2) My little children, I am writing you these things so that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. 2 And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.
(1 John 4:14) In addition, we ourselves have seen and are bearing witness that the Father has sent his Son as Savior of the world.
(Acts 4:12) Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”
(Acts 5:31) God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
(Ephesians 1:7) By means of him we have the release by ransom through the blood of that one, yes, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his undeserved kindness.
(Hebrews 7:25) So he is able also to save completely those who are approaching God through him, because he is always alive to plead for them.
(1 Peter 2:24) He himself bore our sins in his own body on the stake, so that we might die to sins and live to righteousness. And “by his wounds you were healed.”
(1 Timothy 2:5, 6) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.
doing scripture dumps can obscure issues.
If we confine ourselves to verses where Jesus is telling his followers why he has come or been sent we'll get a better understanding of the issue. So we have Jesus saying:
1- "I must PREACH THE KINGDOM OF GOD to other cities also: FOR THEREFORE AM I SENT" [Luke 4:43]
2- Jesus declared that he "was SENT ONLY TO the lost sheep of the nation of Israel." [Matthew 15:24]
3- For the Son of man CAME TO seek and to save what was lost.” (Luke 19:10)
4- "For even the Son of man CAME, not to be ministered to, but to minister and TO give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.” (Mark 10:45)
5- “Do not think I CAME to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but TO fulfil” Matthew 5:17
There may be other verses where Jesus gives the reasons why he came or was sent but we can see from the ones above that Jesus did not say that his mission was to come and die for the sins of the world.;
Jesus didn't need to say those exact words. Several Bible writers that were inspired by God wrote it. Can you prove that Jesus was the Messiah if you disregard everything the Bible writers wrote?
Jesus saves, Moses invests.
Why did Jesus come "TO give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.” (Mark 10:45)?
Both, Jesus ransom sacrifice will save our souls (Lives) and our skin (Flesh). Those going to heaven will not have fleshly bodies though.
(Matthew 16:25) For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
(Matthew 24:22) In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.
Speak for yourself. Maybe your soul, but not mine.
In many instances where trinitarians claim that Jesus is declaring himself to be God if we look at the whole passage where the claimed declaration occurs we see clearly that he is not saying what is being claimed.
I am quite familiar with the passage which ends with the quoted statement in Mark 10:45 as I have looked at it many times before. It is clear that the passage has nothing to do with sins or salvation. It is to do with seeking high positions. Jesus is telling the people seeking high positions that the real purpose of high position is not that people should serve you but that you should serve them to the extent that you should be ready to give your life for them.
It is the central most important belief of Christianity and it is not unreasonable to expect Jesus to have driven the message home by stating it in whatever words he chose but stating it clearly and repeatedly,
Do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah? Did he state it clearly and repeatedly?
(Mark 14:24) And he said to them: “This means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many.
(Matthew 26:28) for this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins.
Notice the word 'and'? The verse is telling us two different things.
(Mark 10:45) For even the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”
It also doesn't say "you should be ready to give your life for them", but that he came to 'give his life as a ransom'. I gave over a dozen scriptures from different Bible writers that allude to the clear words of Jesus giving his life.
(John 10:17, 18) This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my life, so that I may receive it again. 18 No man takes it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. This commandment I received from my Father.”
(John 6:51) I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.”
(Mark 8:31) Also, he began teaching them that the Son of man must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes and be killed, and rise three days later.
You also don't believe that surrendered his life, right?
1- Before I consider whether I'm ready to give undivided attention to these other related issues you're raising, I'd like confirmation that there really isn't anywhere where Jesus clearly says that his mission was to come and die for the sins of the world.
2- You presented Mark 10:45 as evidence of Jesus announcing that his mission was to come and die for the sins of mankind. I said that if we look at the whole of the passage where the quoted sentence occurs we'll see that the passage has nothing to do with dying for the sins of mankind.
3- Another reason I cannot see hat you see in that verse is because the word ransom doesn't fit into the narrative of death and resurrection for atonement. A ransom is something which a hostage taker or blackmailer regards as more valuable than, or at least equally valuable to, the hostage he's holding. It is also something which the blackmailed person is prepared to sacrifice, lose forever, in order to get back the hostage. Before I can apply it to the atonement narrative I'd have to know who or what was the hostage, the blackmailer, the blackmailed person, the ransom and the sacrifice.
4- That is not to say that you must not regard Mark 10:45 as a clear statement from Jesus that he came to die for the sins of mankind.
I accept that you know more of your scripture than I do. I therefore take your response as confirmation that my search IS thorough and that there really isn't anywhere in the Bible where Jesus clearly states, even once, that he was sent to die for the sins of mankind or that his mission was to come and die for the sins of mankind or clearly gives the same message in any other words, for example, "Do you still not believe that I will die for your sins"
(Mark 14:24) And he said to them: “This means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many.
(Mark 14:24) And he said to them: “This means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many.
See if one of these articles helps:
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005135?q=ransom&p=par
CHAPTER FIVE
What is the ransom?
How was it provided?
What can it mean for you?
How can you show that you appreciate it?
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2010604?q=ransom&p=par
How the Ransom Saves Us
“He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; he that disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him.”—JOHN 3:36.
and where was the blood of Jesus "poured out"?
how is that equated to dying for the sins of mankind?
why did he not say that dying for the sins of mankind was the mission he had been sent to carry out?
if that was his mission from God Himself why did he not push for it instead of having to be dragged into it?
why did he ask people to ask God to forgive their sins if he had come to die for them? Was his death for the sins of mankind deficient? Were there sins that his death could not cover?
My experience has been that shotgun affect questions are not sincere. Actually par for the course coming from you. Over the years I have seen your questions/accusations evolve when you think that there is not a verse in the Bible that says something into something like the timing of the actions of the verse doesn't make sense to you.
I explained that a ransom is something which a hostage taker or blackmailer regards as more valuable than, or at least equally valuable to, the hostage he's holding. It is also something which the blackmailed person is prepared to sacrifice, lose forever, in order to get back the hostage.
I then asked in relation to the atonement narrative who or what was
1- the hostage,
2- the blackmailer,
3- the blackmailed person,
4- the ransom and
5- the sacrifice.
If a person directs me to a website instead of giving me their answer it may either mean that there are no simple answers to the simple questions or that they don't understand those answers themselves to be able to explain them to others.
Anyway. we'll leave it there, for now and TY for all your responses so far
