Discussion»Statements»Rosie's Corner» Did the BREXIT vote have anything at all to do with the rise in power of a Donald Trump? Was populism the root of Brexit? If not, what was?
Do explain how?? are you of the opinion that I am somehow uneducated? Or common? Or whatever it is you classify populism with? Please feel free to be specific here. In the meantime I would respectfully direct you to my reply to Sapph.. The voting for Brexit was cross party, aka many, many conservatives were pro-Brexit.. and the main difference tended to be age.. older people tended to be proBrexit younger tended to be Bremain... SO that by definition defies that the vote was populist as people of all walks, classes and political standing voted Brexit.. Populist by definition implies the common man, the working class, which is supposed to be the greater in number, and therefore able to sway things..
Other than that if you are meaning populist to mean MAJORITY one could argue that ALL Governments here are the result of the populist vote.. cos the majority win..
Day, The platform and underlying ideals of the Brexit people and those who support Trump are the same. We can mention immigration for example just to mention one. When you separate Trump as evil but the Brexit people as just, that sounds weird to me. That's all.
Sorry Daydream. I agree with you on what you say justifies Brexit over the stupid quotas, monetary commitment, and having outsiders make some of your laws. I agree Trump is a mad man. However there is a few parallels between Brexit and Trump. One just has more clout and promise, but many people voted for Trump for similar reasons he just lied about them.
having to waste their catch that is going to die after being netted anyway because of quotas while the French ship next to them in British waters gets to keep theirs because they have a higher quota. Yeah, sounds great.
Thank you for your reply Lago. With each iteration it gets worse doesn't it? Is that the natural progression of any movement? It goes from lofty and substantive to crass and extremely selfish/greedy? Happy Friday! :)
Another thought on this populism... I know no one has a mind to listen to this but just to say that MANY of the rich nobs wanted Brexit...
It's an utter myth that most people voted Brexit cos they were whipped up into a frenzy re immigration.. and it's a myth that it was necessarily the common people, the ill-educated who voted Brexit.. Not true.. Older people voted Brexit more than young for sure but it wasn't based on class
You are right. But see that's not my point. What im saying is that if there was a Trump supporter trying to explain the Trump vote, under a positive light, if you change brexit for Trump, it would sound like that. No? )
Heck no!!!!!! Because my explanation is based on sane and reasoned argument.. facts.. those are simply the facts... they arent spin.. they sure aren't ALTERNATIVE facts and we all know that Trump supporters are known to use those..
If you feel differently you are most welcome to highlight an example... as you know I am always happy to debate.
Ooh just to add... if you talk to Bremainers... as I very often do.. (this is not a country divided as Trump has done... we can all respect and get along) then most of their argument for wanting to stay was this.... "well, I just think that leaving is such an unknown" seriously it was that... in various forms.. I don't disrespect ANY Bremainers.. indeed I think both my sons voted Bremain.. but if anything, the Bremainers seem to be much less informed than the Brexiters who can mostly give you a long list of reasons why we voted as we did.. As regards my sons... they too only voted Bremain cos they had never known any different and couldn't imagine anything any different AND they didn't seem to know the reasons why not.. In other words, love them to bits but many of the young people were less well informed and seemed to be more swayed by things like being able to travel easily for holidays to Europe.. just saying
Happy to Lucia.. the myth that Bremainers were any more or less informed than Brexiters is just a myth.. how can we know this? We can't simply.. we can't.. There was a LOT of information out there.. and it's acknowledged that BOTH SIDES engaged in hype and misinformation.. But we cannot, just cannot say that people voted the way they did because they were not informed.. FACTUALLY the major news outlets, such as BBC covered both sides equally.. where there were debates BOTH sides had the same opportunity to speak.. if anything there was more info put out on the Bremain side..so it simply is false that people were not informed. It just isn't..
And, this fortunately hasn't divided people in teh same way Trump has.. we many of us work with and know Bremainers... as I say my two sons voted Bremain.. so we CAN talk to each other sanely and reasonably... as you and I are.. we don't hate each other... and from this, and from before the vote the main, if not only, reason Bremainers were citing as their reason was, and I quote exactly the words I heard over and over... " well we just don't know what will happen if we leave.. best to say..that's safer." so from that gee perhaps they might sound a little ill-informed themselves..
Misinfo on both sides but people voted as they did and we cannot assume that people did so on an illinformed basis.. just saying. I appreciate you disagree.. and that's your right.. but to claim the voters were illinformed because factually there was equal info out there on both sides.. sorry.
This blatantly untrue, and when I have the time (apologies that I don't at the moment) I will gladly take uphill on these points. It is not simply that I voted to remain myself. But you are, with respect, wrong.
This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 17, 2017 12:19 PM MDT
Never said it was that you voted Bremain.. my sons did too.. but factually there was equal info.. factually there were lies and equal scaremongering on both sides.. people made up their own minds.. simple.
Factually too we just cannot say that people made their mind up on an illinformed basis.. if they did then so did the bremainers...
You know what too? Most of the Bremainers are fairly ok with it all too. most have accepted it and feel now that it's important to just get the best deal we can.
"...but if anything, the Bremainers seem to be much less informed than the Brexiters who can mostly give you a long list of reasons why we voted as we did." From Comment #5 above
"... if anything there was more info put out on the Bremain side..so it simply is false that people were not informed. .." From Comment #7
So we the Britmains informed or not? I am confused.
Lago is right. The people believed his lies but they did so hoping for similar things and for similar reasons. He manipulated the same or similar sentiments.
Benedict Arnold 