Did the BREXIT vote have anything at all to do with the rise in power of a Donald Trump? Was populism the root of Brexit? If not, what was?

But that has nothing to do with Brexit.. that's the point.. in the eyes of some Americans it's the same.. I've explained why it isn't.. up to people if they still prefer to believe hype but I can only try to explain.

Please do explain if you think differently?  This isn't the same..  There is no rhetoric that *money will come pouring in* but there is a realistic view that once we are no longer tied into EU market which hampered us from trade elsewhere and which forced us to buy EU milk etc.. then realistically we are likely tobe able to make up any difference .. that's a realistic thing because there simply ARE areas we can trade with queuing up...  especially the commonwealth countries where we always did have good relations and trading agreements.. 

I am afraid on this some Americans take a somewhat overly simplistic view and believe it's all about immigration.. it isn;t -that's hype you are being fed.. 

I ask again.. Glis.. if you had a country that was outside of your own.. telling you you can't sell cox's apples cos they aren't round enough.. or telling you that you cannot fish in your own waters.. or that your milk has to be poured down the drain and people should buy imported milk..would YOU be happy? America would never stand another country telling them what to do..making all kinds of laws, (and yet Glis many of those laws are the ones restricting freedom) so this is a vital point of the Brexit argument to understand.. This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 17, 2017 5:35 PM MDT

Like the US for example? which is becoming increasingly isolationist?
This is very optimistic at best, delusional at worst and one of the fundamental reasons why Brexiters are wrong. I will maintain this postion until the contrary is shown.
It is, quite simply, wishful thinking. Were you one of the ones who that that this country could 'control it's borders' and thus restrict economic migration and at the same time - by virtue of being British - still have access to the single market, on 'our' terms?

No Lucia I can honestly say that doesn't fit me at all.. I have no interest in the common market.. I feel we would be better seeking trade elsewhere as we have always done.. we had a good relationship with teh commonwealth before EU which we had to give up to join the EU.. history an all that...  
I have explained quite clearly my concerns re immigration.. I've been pretty calm, factual and non sensationalist.. we don't have the resources and we don't have the land and water.. these are just facts.. if you had read the reports on pollution, eutrophication zones.. underground aquifers, wildlife declines, habitat fragmentation... hospitals schools doctors, birth rates. etc etc etc . etc... 
And to even mildly suggest I have any problem with immigrants based on race or colour would be way off.. and I explained this..  My concerns are environmental.. we don't have the capability.. and its NOT sustainable in such a small land to keep on building and building on greenfield...most people don't even think about that.. 

Well said!

Same motivations.  Exact same motivations.

Not to be rude  Daydream, but you're the one taking over simplistic views and  basing it ones own perceived cultural exeptionalism.
Sorry but the UK isn't this bastion of freedom,  fairness, and sound logic any more than the US is.


You say no one here understands the UK, however you rarely paint an accurate picture of the US or seem to have as clear a picture about it as you think.


Seriously,  take your words and replace UK with USA and you have the rhetoric of the  and attitudes  of Murica, frick yeah crowd that buys Eagle t-shirts from Wal-mart.  I'm not saying you don't have valid points or reasons for your views on Brexit,  but you're being completely naive or ignorant if you don't think that Trump manipulated and pulled strings with people here having similar sentiments  and used those sentiments to his advantage.  Personally I think you are scared to see it because you think that would make you inline with Trump the man or that Brexit is of the same outcome as having Trump as President.  However it doesn't or doesn't have to anyway.

ahh GLis. you know me and logic.. you say i am the only one.. where's your logic?  You know I am one of only a very few Brits on here.. and at least ONE other has agreed.. you cannot, simply cannot take that as meaning most people here don't agree.. they clearly do cos they voted Brexit.. and I haven't mentioned anything sensationalist.. most is factual.. 

I said MOST of the rules that prevent freedoms are from the EU.. you cannot accept that? well sorry it's fact.. read up on the rules we get from the EU.. sorry you don't agree but it is fact here.. 

You do not accept that maybe you being there and only getting a 1/4 of the picture might give you a slightly erroneous view?  

The rhetoric of trump is way different. . anti muslim anti non white.. is entirely different to UK concern with the level of immigration and NON specific re religion and colour.. but if you choose not to see that or to listen.. that's your business... entirely.. I can only give info I can't make you listen or learn.. and we only wanted self rule.. you have it... but somehow think we should accept rule from elswhere...you never addressed that.. Americans never do... you know you wouldn't tolerate it... silly rules from elsewhere but you think we should? 

I never said that I didn't think Trump pulled strings.. see?? you are being very disingenuous to me there..  but here .. there was NO Trump.. farage is factually NOT respected here.. the stats say he convinced 25% of people to vote Brexit.. and 20% said they would vote Bremain BECAUSE of him.. just facts Glis.. just facts.. and as I keepsaying.. immigration was NOT the only or even the only reason we voted leave.. the main was to be free of stupid restrictive EU rules.. but you choose to believe differently. but I say that you, and all Americans who believe that....do so from over-simplistic reporting there.. you haven't been given the whole pic.. just a sensationalist snapshot.. but hey if telling you how it is doesn't change your mind what can I do.. you don't want to believe any different to what you have been led to believe.. it saddens me... as althogh I admit I don't know as much as most Americans on America I DO try to learn and see the whole pic.. you seemingly want to believe what you want to believe and what you have been told to believe.. and you aren't interested in learning anything that differs from that view.. I am sorry aboout that but it doesnt change that that's out there...info you could access...

I am sorry you so want to compare the two.. I can't save you from that view if you are wedded to it. I am just sorry you are. because it's disingenuous to yourself.. you are believing hype and not wanting to delve further to see the real story.. we didn't have a Trump pulling our strings.. this is the will of the people... not the common ill educated.. but the people.. rich, poor, educated and not.. conservative and labour.. it was a free vote and actually wasn't political.... it was just the people expressing what we want... not populist.. just people.. of all kinds.. no false promises.. but where some were made there were equal scaremongering lies on the other side.  never mind tho.. as you say.. time will tell... WE are doing pretty well here... economy growing.. apparenly the Bremainers are the biggest spenders... lol

You aren't even arguing the points I made in over half of that.   You're arguing ones I never even made.


You need to look in the mirror with open eyes Daydream.  Sorry but you are using some facts to back up a whole lot of emotion and national exceptionalism.   Critiquing the USA and us for things that equally apply to the UK and yourself.    There's a lot of double-standards going on in your replies right now.

and a BIG difference is there were no lies...no false promises.. well there were some but to believe people stupidly believed those is to also accept that there were many lies on the Bremain side too.. scaremongering that we would be bereft without EU both sides lied.. but people made up their own mind.. 

I truly don't believe we are hoping for ANYTHING like Trump#s promises. we just want the chance to rule ourselves not be ruled by un-elected bureaucrats in Europe.. we also want the £50 million a day we sent to bolster Europe to be able to stay here in the UK>> seriously GLis.. ask yourself.. IS THAT unreasonable??? Seriously?? Step back from the misinformation and hype given.. and try to understand the real issueshere are NOT as sensationalised by your press. 

Oh brother... just because people think that what you say is weird doesn't mean they don't understand.The  Brexit movement is ideologically the same  as Trumps populism  look it up. 
You say exactly the same things as Farage and then turn around and say you don't, that it must be my American ears that don't listen hard enough.
Are you sure that deep inside you're not truly a Trump Supporter yourself?

It's not your American ears, the contradictions are there in many of her comments.  My British ears hear them.

You and Yoga pick and choose what you want to.. you put your own spin on it.. que cera...  Yoga and i are hardly bosom buddies.. and she errs toward the side of Trump ... so has a vested interest... I have never ever said anything akin to Farage  it was never about Immigration for me.. it is so for Yoga by her own admission.. but I would prefer not to speak for her.. but you seem to prefer to completely ignore all my other points that were NOT about immigration.. you seem to ignore that there were hype and false claims on both sides equally.. if you prefer not to listen to me and my words because you claim it's weird.. fine but do your homework.. do the reading.. don't just believe American sensationalist and actually pretty biased reporting.. Americans had a vested interest in UK staying in the EU.. American doesn't care about UK.. only in protecting their interests ...so AMerica wanted UK to stay... what do you think theywere going to say in their newspaper reports??? 

I knew you were going to say I didn't understand, to do my research. 
You know?
There is a reason why ALL the news outlets group together Trump, Farage, and Geert.
Perhaps they all should do their research too.
Anyway, thank you for indulging me....it's been.....interesting.. ) This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 17, 2017 2:45 PM MDT

I certainly do not pick and choose/put my own spin on things. If you've read my comments about immigration I said that it was a huge factor in the Brexit vote but I've also said that we don't want EU Parliament to be making our laws, paying 55 million Pounds each and every day just to have them dictate to us, it took us 10 years of appeals to deport that hook man terrorist, because he was appealing to the EU Parliament, as a nation we should be free to deport anyone found to be guilty of terrorism.  We should not have to listen to the absurd regulations on bananas the EU imposes, or the restrictions on farming. 
We functioned well before The Common Market was presented to us, never in our wildest dreams did anyone, I don't think anyone alive at that time would have dreamt that we were giving away our rights as a nation to govern as we see fit.
I have never said I supported Trump, I don't have a vote here but it bothers me that people are not giving him a chance to either prove himself or fail.  He is an outsider he has said from the onset that he will be a different kind of President and we should wait and see what that means.
I believe the people in the US were tired of the slick career politicians and Trump came through as someone different.

I wish you try to do the same right now. 

I completely agree with your statement. THere is nothing that is incorrect or factually untrue.. That is exactly how it is..And Obama really didn't help it was very silly of him to think he could threaten us!   It's a pity that there are some Americans feel they know better and seem to prefer not to listen to the real reasons - not meaning here of course as I'd like to think that people here have the respect and intelligence to learn when things are said, especially with such consensus. This post was edited by Benedict Arnold at March 17, 2017 5:22 AM MDT

Finally something I agree with, how it is a pity how some Americans think they know better than you guys that live there.
I agree.
Would you believe that there are some English people that do the same about their opinions on American politics? 
I know right?

"It's a pity that there are some Americans feel they know better and seem to prefer not to listen to the real reasons - not meaning here of course as I'd like to think that people here have the respect and intelligence to learn when things are said, especially with such consensus."

I'm laughing just reading your comment.  Now change Americans to British and you get the idea. 

Logically, sanely Yoga yes we both have difficulty truly appreciating the other side of the argument... being a Brit makes it hard for me to always understand every aspect of American politics... I listen and learn.. Seems it's not always reciprocal and you know as well as I do that American's have a rep, perhaps deserved, for being quite insular... they have a tendency to only be interested in their own affairs and know little, outside of that.. The reports on Brexit in America were fairly biased against Brexit.. I am believing you probably knew that.. respecting you by saying that.. not that the respect seems reciprocal as it's pretty clear you really don't like me and would use any opportunity to say so.. even where I am actually agreeing with you.. YOU are are pro Brexit and your main reason IS immigration.. yes there are people like that here... who voted Brexit because of immigration. I wouldnt pretend otherwise..but you would know too surely that that wasnt the only reason.. Ive tried to explain that.. pity your feelings against me lead you to prefer to use the opportunity to have  a pop at me.. 

I don't have difficulty truly appreciating "the other side" I split my time between the UK and US so I have a good insight into both sides of the politics.


What I said was immigration was a HUGE factor in the Brexit vote.  My feelings were a combination of things which I've already stated.  The 55 million Pounds paid daily to the EU just to belong, 85% of our laws made in the EU Parliament, losing the right to deport convicted terrorists without going through the EU Parliament when they appeal their human rights have been violated which took 10 years for hook man all the while he and his family of 5 were living on benefits courtesy of the UK taxpayers.  We need to get our country back, our laws and traditions have been shoved aside all in the name of the EU. 
I don't have "feelings" against you I just am disturbed that you feel you should lecture and insult people in another country about their choice of President. You are choosing to attack me when I point this out.
I agree with everything you said on the state of Britain, and other European countries, because of the uncontrolled immigration. In fact, many of the issues you raised I've already said if you care to go back and read them.

Thank you for your very thoughtful, helpful and informative reply Yogafan. I appreciate it. Isn't it the heart of Populism? Doing what you believe to be best for your country? There is nothing wrong with that I guess. It is the antithesis of global/one world though, isn't it? Happy Friday! :)

Yes.  Bernie was also a populist.   That's what is truly sad that Trump is now going to define anti-globalist sentiment here and taint it with such a bad brush to many.

Thanks Hillary and DNC.

Yoga is a Brit for sure . but she doesn't speak for all Brits NOR all those who voted Brexit.. I've said over and over that many of the people who voted Brexit were conservatives.. rich...educated.. so if the definition of populist is the common man.. the working class, the less educated.. well no.. as it was all walks of life and the vote was not political

I have to disagree.  Uncontrolled immigration played a HUGE part of Brexit, indeed your comments regarding this topic illustrate just that.