What Was the Primary Cause of the War Between the States? References Please, keep it civil.

Thanks tex, absolutely I know all too well this was not a religious war, only a war fought by Christians in name only. 

"Who are no part of the world and learn war no more? Again, the historical record of the 20th century testifies: only Jehovah's Witnesses." Watchtower1992 Apr 1 p.12
The finger is quickly pointed at other religions for their involvement in war, describing their followers as "children of the Devil slaughtering their spiritual brothers". (Awake! 1985 Dec 22 p.10) Jehovah's Witnesses are proclaimed as unique for being the only loving religion on earth and the only one abstaining from participation in warfare.
This self-proclamation of uniqueness is far from correct; numerous religious organisations do not participate in warfare. These statements are another area that highlights the dishonesty of the Watchtower in attempting to convince their followers that they are unique and alone are acceptable to God.
What most Jehovah's Witnesses do not seem to be aware of is;
o There are a number of religions that do not participate in war
o Witnesses are neutral but not pacifists
o There is Biblical support for engaging in war

https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/war.php

Why are you so bent on war? Why do you think war is a good thing? Can you really love your brother while willing to kill him over some political agenda, piece of land, difference in race or tribe? Why don't you even blink when Catholics are killing other Catholics? Rwanda for example? WWII for example?

I am not "so bent on war."  I am appalled at people like you who think that  there can never be a just war.

If a wife were being raped---and only deadly force could stop her attacker---would she be safe having you as a husband?

Or would you only interfere if this was the 70 times 7th plus 1 time it was happening?

I actually feel sick to my stomach because I have been too long exposed today to the putrid reasoning I have been forced to read and respond to.

----One of the fruits I recognize you by.

Your a sick person. If your little boy is being raped by a priest, is he safe having you for a father?

Answer the question I posed---it's a well know question used to root out inconsistencies in the philosophy of people like you who say there is never any reason to kill.






This post was edited by tom jackson at June 14, 2017 4:51 PM MDT

Not that I have to answer any of your idiotic questions just like Jesus didn't respond to all of the idiotic questions asked by your first century counter parts.
It's a well know question? You're an IDIOT. Of course I wouldn't just sit there and let someone rape my wife. 

You want to answer this question now? This should really be a well known question based on the fruits of forbidding priest from marrying and putting them on pedastals with religious titles and such:
 If your little boy is being raped by a priest, is he safe having you for a father?

(1 Tim 4:1-3) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; 3 forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth

If differential causation is suspected, differential remediation is essential.  Apparently you have little insight into human sexuality and how it is necessary for each individual to integrate it into one's personality so that such atrocities don't occur.

Your understanding of human sexuality and its psychology is certainly on par with your knowledge of the bible.

But it is most heartening that you admit that your belief that you should never kill is basically bovine excrement.  But you say you wouldn't just sit there---I'm glad you are now at least standing up.  What would you do next?  Your wife is not feeling very confident at the moment---and I certainly can understand why.

I'm not paying any attention to your inspired utterances, or the hypocrisy (you have just admitted to regarding killing), or your lack of understanding of the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

And you indicate that we should call no one "father"---I've heard that some people are bastards by accident of birth, others are-self made men.
Care to clarify 26,9?

You are a very demented person, but then again, look at all the heinous atrocities committed by your Church.

Are you so blind that you cannot see that Matthew 23 is talking about in a religious setting? Does context not mean anything to you? If it is not in a religious context eg: use of religious titles, then sense it came from Jesus wouldn't a good Catholic not even call his birth dad father?
What does Mt 23:9 mean to you? Just some more words by Jesus that have no meaning to a Catholic?

Do you think that forbidding priest from marrying is a good thing in light of 1 Tim 4:1-3? Paul called that "teachings of demons".

Well, I can certainly understand why you think you don't have to answer my questions.  I'd be embarrassed by your answer also if I were you.

Feel free to hit the showers at any time.

You really are an idiot aren't you. I did answer your question I just said I didn't have to. Was Jesus embarrassed? Is that the reason he didn't always answer idiotic questions? 

Here, I will put it in bold for you this time:

•  June 14, 2017 3:50 PM PDT

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• texasescimo  tom jackson
  
  
   
  Not that I have to answer any of your idiotic questions just like Jesus didn't respond to all of the idiotic questions asked by your first century counter parts.
  It's a well know question? You're an IDIOT. Of course I wouldn't just sit there and let someone rape my wife. 
  
  You want to answer this question now? This should really be a well known question based on the fruits of forbidding priest from marrying and putting them on pedastals with religious titles and such:
   If your little boy is being raped by a priest, is he safe having you for a father?
  
  (1 Tim 4:1-3) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; 3 forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth
  
  

  (Matthew 23:1, 2) Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses.
  (Matthew 23:6-12) They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues 7 and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men. 8 But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. 11 But the greatest one among you must be your minister. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Given your penchant for misinterpreting so many things in the bible, I doubt you are qualified to judge whether q question is intelligent or idiotic.

But in your case, not answering my questions would be very telling.

Tom, I answered your question three different times. Even a caveman could see that. Why haven't you answered any of my questions? Hypocrisy? 

Here's a few if you missed them:
If your little boy is being raped by a priest, is he safe having you for a father?
Are you so blind that you cannot see that Matthew 23 is talking about in a religious setting? Does context not mean anything to you? If it is not in a religious context eg: use of religious titles, then sense it came from Jesus wouldn't a good Catholic not even call his birth dad father?
What does Mt 23:9 mean to you? Just some more words by Jesus that have no meaning to a Catholic?
Was Jesus embarrassed? Is that the reason he didn't always answer idiotic questions? 

So your position is that we should never have fought the Revolutionary War and that we should not have fought the Germans and Japanese in World War II---or do our brothers exist only when they live in close proximity to us.

The bible has a warning for people such as you:

Matthew 7: 22-23---Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'  And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

If it wasn't for the support of your Church, Hitler couldn't have pulled off what he did. You seem to think like a person that doesn't believe in God or a resurrection. Is your  faith in God or man? 

I guess to be a Christian means different meanings to different people. Some think of being a Christian as just believing in Jesus. Some think of it as believing as well as trying to do what he said and trying to follow his example in love.(Luke 6:46; 1Pet 2:21-23) There are other definitions as well.
(Luke 6:46) “Why, then, do YOU call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?
(1 Peter 2:21-23) In fact, to this [course] YOU were called, because even Christ suffered for YOU, leaving YOU a model for YOU to follow his steps closely. 22 He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth. 23 When he was being reviled, he did not go reviling in return. When he was suffering, he did not go threatening, but kept on committing himself to the one who judges righteously.

As far as war, Christians going to war would contradict everything that Jesus told Christians to do since the institution of the New Covenant. There have been quite a few wars in which “Christians” thought that God and Jesus wanted them to kill, often resulting in mutual slaughter of those of the same religion and others just because they are of a different political opinion, nationality, race or other issue. Christians are supposed to be different as they have faith in the resurrection and consider themselves temporary residents whereas without that hope they would likely not be different.(1Cor 15:12-34; Heb 11:13-16) If those “Christians” that have participated in those blood baths would have tested those supposed expressions of God being preached by their Clergy in support of war and saying that God is on their side as their preachers were preaching them into the trenches in comparison with the teachings of Jesus, many atrocities such as the Crusades, Civil Wars, the Holocaust, and several other atrocities and wars perpetrated by those claiming to follow Christ would not have happened. Same thing if they would have had their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong as obviously many of those things were wrong. 

(2 Timothy 2:24-26) But a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be gentle toward all, qualified to teach, keeping himself restrained under evil, 25 instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed; as perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, 26 and they may come back to their proper senses out from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him for the will of that one.
(1 John 4:1) Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.
(Hebrews 5:13-14) For everyone that partakes of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong. 
(Matthew 7:21-23) “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.

Christians in Bible times did not go to war. 
(2 Corinthians 10:3-4) For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to [what we are in the] flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things.
(1 John 3:11-12) For this is the message which YOU have heard from [the] beginning, that we should have love for one another; 12 not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother [were] righteous.
(Romans 12:17-21) Return evil for evil to no one. Provide fine things in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves,beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says Jehovah.” 20 But, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head.” 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good. 
(John 13:35) By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.” 


What did Jesus mean by “I came to put, not peace, but a sword”? 
Jesus told his disciples: “Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household.” Accepting his message would cause division in some families. (Matthew 10:34-38) This does not mean that the Bible message of itself causes family division. Rather, unbelieving or unfaithful family members cause a rift by rejecting, abandoning, or even opposing the way of Christianity. Instead of embracing the good news, most people reject it. Some make themselves enemies of those who proclaim it, even if they are close family members. This is to be expected. Jesus said to his disciples:“A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” (John 15:20)

Jesus used an occasion with a sword to teach a lesson. 
(Luke 22:36-38) Then he said to them: “But now let the one that has a purse take it up, likewise also a food pouch; and let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one. 37 For I tell YOU that this which is written must be accomplished in me, namely, ‘And he was reckoned with lawless ones.’ For that which concerns me is having an accomplishment.” 38 Then they said: “Lord, look! here are two swords.” He said to them: “It is enough.”
(Luke 22:49-51) When those about him saw what was going to happen, they said: “Lord, shall we strike with the sword?” 50 A certain one of them even did strike the slave of the high priest and took off his right ear. 51 But in reply Jesus said: “LET it go as far as this.” And he touched the ear and healed him.
(Matthew 26:51-52) But, look! one of those with Jesus reached out his hand and drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest and took off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Jesus taught that when Christians were persecuted they were to flee rather than retaliate. When the Roman authorities took Jesus he did not want his followers to battle them and when the Roman legions under Cestus Gallus were to come against Jerusalem in 66 C.E. the Christians were to flee rather than participate in the war. Christians consider themselves temporary residents and will not kill others for a political cause. Christians know that God can resurrect the dead and that those that do not know any better will also be resurrected.(Rom 4:17; Acts 24:15-16)
(John 18:36) Jesus answered: “My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source.”
(Matthew 10:23) When they persecute YOU in one city, flee to another; for truly I say to YOU, YOU will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of Israel until the Son of man arrives.
(Matthew 24:15-16) “Therefore, when YOU catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) 16 then let those in Ju‧de′a begin fleeing to the mountains. 
(Luke 21:20-21) “Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju•de′a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her;
(Hebrews 11:13-16) In faith all these died, although they did not get the [fulfillment of the] promises, but they saw them afar off and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land. 14 For those who say such things give evidence that they are earnestly seeking a place of their own. 15 And yet, if they had indeed kept remembering that [place] from which they had gone forth, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they are reaching out for a better [place], that is, one belonging to heaven. Hence God is not ashamed of them, to be called upon as their God, for he has made a city ready for them.
(Acts 24:15-16) and I have hope toward God, which hope these [men] themselves also entertain, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. 16 In this respect, indeed, I am exercising myself continually to have a consciousness of committing no offense against God and men.





Christians were given warnings about what to expect in the last days and they place their hope in God and the resurrection rather than man. (2Tim 3:1-5; Ps 118:9;146:3; Jer 17:5)
(Matthew 24:9) “Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name.
(Revelation 2:10-11) Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: He that conquers will by no means be harmed by the second death.’
(Revelation 6:9-11) And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood upon those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.
(Revelation 13:9-10) If anyone has an ear, let him hear. 10 If anyone [is meant] for captivity, he goes away into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. Here is where it means the endurance and faith of the holy ones.



It really seems odd when people of the same religion kill members of their own religion. 
JESUS told his disciples: “I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another.” (John 13:34) I don’t think that Christians can manifest such love for one another and at the same time go to war and kill one another. I don’t think that there could be a greater division than members of the same religion killing one another and Christ is not supposed to be divided.(1Cor 1:13)
(1 John 3:10-12) The children of God and the children of the Devil are evident by this fact: Everyone who does not carry on righteousness does not originate with God, neither does he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message which YOU have heard from [the] beginning, that we should have love for one another; 12 not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother. And for the sake of what did he slaughter him? Because his own works were wicked, but those of his brother [were] righteous.
(1 John 4:20-21) If anyone makes the statement: “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also.
(1Cor 10:20) No; but I say that the things which the nations sacrifice they sacrifice to demons, and not to God; and I do not want YOU to become sharers with the demons
(John 16:2-3) Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.


A few quotes about the attitudes of early Christians in relation to war: 
“A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.”—The Rise of Christianity (London, 1947), E. W. Barnes, p. 333.

“We who were filled with war, and mutual slaughter, and every wickedness, have each through the whole earth changed our warlike weapons,—our swords into ploughshares, and our spears into implements of tillage,—and we cultivate piety, righteousness, philanthropy, faith, and hope, which we have from the Father Himself through Him who was crucified.”—Justin Martyr in “Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew” (2nd century C.E.), The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids, Mich.; reprint of 1885 Edinburgh edition), edited by A. Roberts and J. Donaldson, Vol. I, p. 254.

“They refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . it was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.”—History of Christianity (New York, 1891), Edward Gibbon, pp. 162, 163.

First of all, you are confusing the role of the head of a sovereign state with the role of successor of St Peter.  And given the amount of trust I place in you as a false prophet, it should be obvious that my faith must be in God.

Again, you attempt to compel my belief in your conclusions, when there is nothing that can be said that can do so.  Do you not know that the human intellect cannot be put in possession of its object by some exterior agent that takes it there?

And were you asleep when God said "Matthew 7: 22-23---Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'  And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’?

He's talking to you---heed His warning.

This post was edited by tom jackson at June 14, 2017 1:00 PM MDT

Lol. Yes, he was talking to his followers. He was warning them about ones like yourself.
(Matthew 7:15-23) “Be on the watch for the false prophets who come to you in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men. 21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

I know I am His follower, and He warned me not to be mislead by the JW's a group of people who only claim to be His followers. (I'm one of those who has ears---and I certainly heard Him "loud and clear.")

But you said he was talking to me, remember?

•  June 14, 2017 10:40 AM PDT
• tom jackson  texasescimo

"He's talking to you---heed His warning"

Oh the small mind of the JW finally reveals itself.   

You can recite all sorts of stuff that you have studied and memorized and copied to assert your beliefs, but your basic intellectual abilities are significant lacking when it comes to standing on your own.

Most cults attract such people.   Personally, I wish you had had a chance to investigate "Heaven's Gate" some years ago.

Too bad you were born in to a religion that claims to follow the Bible yet you found no need to read the Bible to see what it really says.

(Mark 7:13) Thus you make the word of God invalid by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like this.”

You don't question rather or not you should kill just like you don't question the trinity or any other Church dogma.
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm

From a dogmatic standpoint, the merely historical question of the authorship of the Creed, or of the time it made its appearance, is of secondary consideration.  The fact alone that it is approved by the Church as expressing its mind on the fundamental truths with which it deals, is all we need to know.

Baptism as an infant was a great gift from God.  After trying to prove to myself in my late 20's that Catholic theology was "wrong," I came to the inescapable conclusion that it was actually correct. Then I full embraced what God was trying to get me to understand.

Why you so misunderstand the bible and what it says is incredible to me---but I just now remembered in real time that you are trying to interpret it without the guidance of the Third Person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit.  So again, I am aware of your problem.

But I would remind you---your lack of trust in God's word is dangerous to your soul---"For when God has spoken, in precept and yet more in promise, distrust involves, at least potentially, an element of disobedience. His supreme claim is to be trusted to command only what is right, and to promise only what is true. He is infinitely sympathetic in His insight, and infallibly knows where distrust comes only of the dim perceptions and weak mis-givings of our mortal nature, and where, on the other hand, a moral resistance lies at the back of the non-confidence. But the presence of that darker element is always to be suspected, at least, and searched for in serious self-examination."

You would do well to heed such a warning.

 

You keep proclaiming that I so misunderstand the Bible and what it says. Perhaps you should read it (I understand that Catholics are aloud to now, although you may not choose to remain Catholic if you did) and then make a decision as to if I misunderstand it.

Can you show me where any infant was baptized in the Bible?
Can you show me where the Bible talks about a third person of a trinity? Or even a first person of a trinity? (Bible, not catechism)

What am I misunderstanding on this verse?

(2 Corinthians 10:3-4) For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to [what we are in the] flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things.

Quote from tom: "Baptism as an infant was a great gift from God.  After trying to prove to myself in my late 20's that Catholic theology was "wrong," I came to the inescapable conclusion that it was actually correct. Then I full embraced what God was trying to get me to understand."

Obviously you didn't check or use the scriptures as your litmus test or you wouldn't still belong to such a blood guilty organization. 

(Acts 17:11) Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,

You seem unable to separate me as an individual who thinks and acts in the current time and place.  Suggesting that I am somehow responsible for the errors of previous individuals in any church history is as sill as accusing me of endorsing slavery because I am white and plantation owners were also white.

And I certainly agree that All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,

And I keep trying to reprove and discipline you by telling you how it is meant to be heard by you, but apparently obstinance may indicate that your heart has been hardened beyond it's ability to recover sufficiently to hear the words of the Lord.