He died for our sins.........explain, please!!

You constrain God to act only in ways that are consistent with human understanding.

Faith is gift from God.

To some he gives faith in His existence.

To others faith in His triune nature.

To others, insight into the meaning of one church and its mission.

You seem more interested in proving what can be and what can't be rather than dealing with what might be.

Once an individual person understands as fully as he can what God is, the efficacy of any given summary of reasonable proof or lack thereof becomes meaningless.

After all, if God created us to be able to fully understand Him in this mode of existence, He would have been able to provide proof in a form or fashion which would quite obviously require assent to the reality He wished us to know precisely.

It's much more useful at this stage of the game to talk to Him rather than about Him---as we are doing.

1- “You constrain God to act only in ways that are consistent with human understanding.” Since we’re humans it goes without saying that we can perceive God only in ways that are consistent with human understanding.

2- “Faith is gift from God.” Not sure. It’s a matter of choice. If it were purely a gift from God it would not be fair for God to judge people on the basis of faith.

3- Faith has to be supported by sound arguments. Otherwise it becomes blind faith. The sort of faith that makes people believe that a person can be both mortal and immortal at the same time, or that God is made up of three persons each of whom is fully God.

4- “Once an individual person understands as fully as he can what God is...” If that individual person is a human being then his/her understanding will necessarily have to be consistent with human understanding. Also if that understanding is real then that individual person should have no problem explaining that to others.

5- “God created us to be able to fully understand Him” within the limits of human understanding. He does not, indeed cannot expect more than that of us; just like we cannot expect a five year old to have an understanding that exceeds the capability of the best five year old.

6- “It's much more useful at this stage of the game to talk to Him rather than about Him” but before talking to Him one needs to know about Him so that one knows better WHO one is talking to.

1)---that's why the Holy Spirit of the triune God exists---to help us understand.

2)---the theological virtue of Faith is a gift.

3)---When reason enlightens Faith, it is indeed a wonderful thing, but the little children didn't have much logic under their belts, and yet "for such is the kingdom of heaven."

4)---consistent with, but not limited by.

5)---My point is that if God wanted to make any of His teachings crystal clear to humanity He could have done so. He hasn't.  For example, He hasn't bothered to suggest to me that your interpretation of the Bible is correct and mine is not---and of the two, mine is much more rewarding to me than yours is.

6)---So no child can pray effectively to God until He studies the Bible?  I guess if you aren't a Muslim, you might be an Episcopalian.

I have been in discussions with this theme before.  I see no evidence that you have any interest in possibly gaining insight into God. 

Obviously, you don't need me to be present for your mental masturbation.  Personally, I prefer to point my actions to the end of fecundity.

1- “the Holy Spirit of the triune God exists---to help us understand” okay, but

a] the HS when addressin a human being can only do so within the limits of human understanding and

b] the HS speaking to each person individually is a perfect recipe for splintering and sectarianism. Who’s to say that Joseph Smith or Charles Taze Russell weren’t helped to understand by the HS?

2- shifting the goalposts to “theological virtue” whatever that means, doesn’t help. The bottom line is if it’s a gift from God then God can’t hold anyone to account for not having it.

3a- “When reason enlightens Faith, it is indeed a wonderful thing” is precisely where I’m coming from and so’s the Lord according to Isaiah 1:18  ““Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD”

3b- as for Matthew 19:14 where Jesus, in defence of children says, "Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven" – it is a clear negation of the idea of original sin.

4- “consistent with, but not limited by”? If you’re human how can your understanding not be limited by human understanding? Perhaps that’s something else only the HS can explain.

5a- To close the door to the idea that “God wanted to make any of His teachings crystal clear to humanity” is to open the door to all sorts of beliefs and doctrines. Why not instead accept that, as you yourself so beautifully put it, “When reason enlightens Faith, it is indeed a wonderful thing”

5b- Throw out all traces of reason and “mine is much more rewarding to me than yours is” becomes no more than a placebo. And placebos don’t work for those who analyse them and find out that they’re placebos.

6- “So no child can pray effectively to God until He studies the Bible?“ Children whose questions are not answered to the satisfaction of their level reasoning will not pray. Ask many an ex Christian atheist. They'll tell you they hated being "dragged" to church as a child.

The above is why even if i swallow what you're giving me, it won't work. The reasoning mind will reject it. Reason is a gift from God. A gift that we use to the full when making choices that affect our fleeting temporal lives but many seem to leave at the doorstep when making choices that affect our everlasting hereafter.

If you do not have more to add then thank you and have a nice day.

wow what a great answer!! I was raised catholic....& hated it...not an Atheist but do DESPISE organized religion....I admire Atheists for their logic & the way they cut to the chase.....!!

I think it's a scream that even the 4 gospels don't agree with each other!!  good grief!!  word of God? maybe it started out that way, but then men got their grubby little hands on it, as in the council of Nicea; 4th century I think, where some 'church fathers' decided to pick and choose which books would, and would not, be in the 'bible'.again, the word of God....???          

how ludicrous.beyond belief....also love the fact that nowhere else in the old history  books is any mention of Herod killing all the first born sons at that time.......now surely if that had happened, SOMEONE  would have written about it.......

but most of all I despise the distortion of the role Mary of Magdala played....and I still think the wedding at Cana was HIS and hers!!!....but that's for another day and discussion, right?

and I get a HUGE kick out of the way catholics (the name doesn't deserve a capital 'c'!!! lol) go crazy over Mary.......oh well...