Active Now

Spunky
DannyPetti
Discussion » Questions » Human Behavior » Ethical Question: Is it ok for me to reach out to a former end client on my own?
Just Asking

Ethical Question: Is it ok for me to reach out to a former end client on my own?

In my primary career, I'm a writer and I support small businesses. A while back (1-2 years ago), I did some work for a guy and he's come back for more work a time or two since then. He also referred me a client maybe six months ago- that client didn't pan out. She wound up scrapping her project and didn't pay me for the work I'd done. So, this guy gets in touch with me maybe month and a half ago and tells me he may have a new ongoing writing project for me. He sets me up with an alternate email address in his company's name and puts me in touch with the end client. I do a test piece and they love it, but things went awry with billing. I'm getting emails between the two of them and they're disputing whether to handle their transactions via check or electronic payments. It turns out, the guy is making double what I am on each transaction and will pocket about $400 per month for doing nothing, but he's fighting over getting a paper check from the end client, saying paper checks are too expensive. So, the end client dropped him and told him we're done.

Needless to say, I'm a little miffed that the guy misrepresented my relationship with him and is pocketing so much money on a monthly basis, seemingly forever, but that's the nature of the beast. My agreement was with him and not the end client. Had I learned of this under normal circumstances, I might have let it be because he'd be fulfilling our agreement. However, now that the end client has terminated her relationship with him, is it ethical for me to contact her directly and let her know that I operate independently? I'd like the ongoing work, even at my normal rate, without his middleman markups, but the whole situation makes me feel icky. I don't know what their relationship is, but it appears to be a curt/formal business relationship. Also, I'm not really worried about laws- I have no written agreement with either of them and my contact didn't ask me not to talk to the woman or tell me I had to do business through him, but there's obviously the implication of discretion. Ergo, this is an ethics question, not a legal one.

Posted - April 10, 2017
Tags : None

Responses


  • 44620
    Since you are the one being ripped off, the guy is the unethical one. I have no reason to think you are being unethical and maybe you can become her direct client.
      April 10, 2017 1:08 PM MDT
    4

  • 7939
    Thank you.
      April 10, 2017 1:29 PM MDT
    2

  • I personally see no ethical issues with it whatsoever.
     
    Since you have no legal obligation or restrictions prohibiting it, why now? Id doesn't sound like he was completely up front with you, so... go for it
      April 10, 2017 1:10 PM MDT
    3

  • 7939
    No, he wasn't up front, but I kind of "smelled" it in advance and knew. Thanks for your response.
      April 10, 2017 1:30 PM MDT
    3

  • It's a grey area here and I personally been in similar.   Basically he's making a finders fee and and networking deal.  He's subbing work to you.   You're gonna piss him off and destroy any future work he might throw your way.   You have to decide if that is worth it right now.   I'm gonna also say that in my personal experience with these kinds of situations the end client sometimes sees a problem with doing this and could result in losing any future work from the middle man with no prospect from the end client in question.
    You have to weigh it all together and decide if having future work relationships with the middle man person is something you want or need.   If the answer is no then go for it.
      April 10, 2017 1:18 PM MDT
    4

  • 7939
    You're right. Losing her as a client isn't a huge deal to me, so if she blew me off for approaching her, so be it. What I really dislike is the lack of transparency I have with her now. And, yes, I'm certain he'd stop contacting me as well if he knew. If she handled it discretely and didn't tell anyone I was working for her, which would be easy to do, he might never know. Really, though, I just don't like the way he operates anyway and probably wouldn't accept more work from him. I work for several marketing agencies and they're transparent. Their clients know they work with a writer who is doing the work and the marketing companies handle other tasks for them, so they're getting a package deal. This is different and feels dishonest, especially because the end client is getting ripped off. I don't really care if I lose either of them, though I'd really rather keep her. She runs an altruistic business, which makes this even more icky. I like her spirit and passion for what she does. She's a good person. Logic and law tell me just to message her, but even that doesn't "feel" right. Not saying something to her doesn't feel right either. Meh.
      April 10, 2017 1:40 PM MDT
    4

  • Yeah.   I personally don't get it.  However a lot of these higher up customers place a lot of value on the middlemen networkers.   Why I can't tell you since all they really are is a superficial cog that adds to their expense and negates some the actual producer's profit.   A leech basically.  Yet they do and often look down on a go getter worker trying to help trim fat from both sides steak.   They often don't see that way and have this weird and warped idea that you are being sneaky and screwing someone out of their work. What is their actual work though but skimming money?  I don't get it or agree with it but it is what it is.
      April 10, 2017 2:19 PM MDT
    4

  • 1002
    "... a lot of these higher up customers place a lot of value on the middlemen networkers. Why I can't tell you..."

    The buffer between the producer and the purchaser of product potentially shields the purchaser from squabbles over the validity of grounds for rejection of the product, thus the purchaser can reject the final product of the producer on damn near any grounds without having to do it directly. I greatly dislike that design and I see it damn near everywhere in business. It's a waste of everyone's time when one or all parties can pull out entirely and at any time because someone would rather nitpick than collaborate.
      April 11, 2017 8:39 AM MDT
    0

  • Agree.   It's part of the toxic corporate division model.
      April 11, 2017 8:43 AM MDT
    1

  • 1002
    I suspect it feels wrong because no matter what you do, not all parties will mutually benefit. That's not a character flaw JA, if anything it's a strength.

    You don't create the situation and there's really no reason for you to take it as an entire loss unless you just prefer to. You're right, you will lose further referrals from him, but that may not be a bad thing. People *tend* fly with familiars, future business he may bring you may be equally problematic because of the way he conducts himself. He will have your name in his mouth and that may not be a bad thing if it repels prospects that share his MO. This post was edited by ForkNdaRoad at April 11, 2017 8:45 AM MDT
      April 11, 2017 8:44 AM MDT
    0

  • 17600
    I don't really see an ethics issue.  He was basically getting a referral fee.  If she left the arrangement because of him I see no reason for you to avoid contacting the person for whom you were providing the service.    That is my personal,  not legal, opinion.
      April 10, 2017 3:51 PM MDT
    1

  • To me, the end client had a need which you fulfilled... That need is currently not being fulfilled, assuming no replacement.
    The dispute between the middleman and the end client should be of no concern in any future relations you have with the end client in my view.

    For me, the bottom line is this... You obviously need the work otherwise you wouldn't be asking this question, you can approach the end client and more work may result of may not.
    You can do nothing, and remain where you are.

    I see approaching the end client can only put you in front with no downside.
    I hope you do and I hope it's successful :)
      April 10, 2017 5:04 PM MDT
    1

  • Dear Just Asking,
    My suggestion would be to just really ponder, and see if there might be a way you can proceed with contacting the end client and still maintain a sense of integrity, both for your own satisfaction and for your business presence.

    For example, to set up a transparent situation where you arrange to give the guy who referred you, a finder's fee? Ongoing $400 for a few months, something like that? You know the personalities, what arrangement would leave everyone feeling okay, hopefully all of them impressed by your personal and business integrity. 

    * * *
    The reason I would like to see you proceed is what you write, "I like her spirit and passion for what she does. She's a good person." 
    Makes this worth some contemplation, perhaps pursuing.
      April 10, 2017 5:13 PM MDT
    1

  • 1002

    I would do it, but first I'd pick up the phone and call him and tell him I did it and why. Misrepresentation, of any sort, nullifies any previous arrangement. That's not my opinion, that's the law.

    It's a dog eat dog world JA, this is a misrepresentation that you know about, imagine what you don't know. My opinion, and you do what you wish, cut ties with that guy and let him know why. That's the ethical thing to do, not just for yourself, but also those he may have already taken for a ride.

      April 10, 2017 7:37 PM MDT
    1

  • 1268
    Not illegal=ethical in the business world.
      April 10, 2017 8:11 PM MDT
    1

  • 34297
    Sounds like he is a general contractor and you are working as a subcontractor. Nothing wrong with that. I have been on both sides of the contractor game myself. 
    It really comes does to do you want to subcontract and work from this guy in the future? If yes then I would not approach the end customer. Unless I were willing to make a deal with her that still gave him his cut. If you are done with him, then approach the end customer. I would even think of raising your rate as well. If he was making more than you....You should be able to get a hirer price.
      April 10, 2017 9:06 PM MDT
    1

  • 2327
    I think you got some pretty good answers here, TBH. So for my answer I'm going to bring up a side issue, call it, a quest of curiosity. Whenever I read a story about someone, I imagine them visually. Now does this slithery snake have a balding head and a corporate-approved goatee? Does he wear a blue and white pin-striped button-up, with a navy blue tie? Does he wear personalized cuff-links? Thin glasses? A strong country accent?   
      April 10, 2017 9:14 PM MDT
    1

  • 7939
    Haha. I only work online. I had to Google him to see what he looked like. You got the bald part right, but he's not the suit-and-tie type. He's from the west coast and looks the part. ;)
      April 10, 2017 9:21 PM MDT
    0

  • You don't have a non-compete or exclusivity agreement. Once he broke his agreement with her, her service needs are now open market. You could be responding to an ad on the 'net looking for what you offer without even knowing it, would you back out if you found out it was her? What if I called you up and said I had a job for you, and 'lo and behold it turns out to be her, would you turn it down? Absolutely nothing unethical here.
      April 11, 2017 9:04 AM MDT
    1