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Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » Any train engineers out there? It seems the train that derailed in Washington state was going 80 mph in a 30mph zone. WHY?

Any train engineers out there? It seems the train that derailed in Washington state was going 80 mph in a 30mph zone. WHY?

The black box was apparently recovered and that's how the info about how fast it was going was determined. i can only assume the train took a curve going way too fast just as other motorist taking a curve way too fast can cause disaster. Was it a black box defect? Was the engineer controlling the train or was it all electronically done and caused by system defect?

Posted - December 19, 2017

Responses


  • 13395
    I was a brakeman for CN Rail up to 1986, some things may have changed since then but the engineer should always be primary in controlling the train. May be a case of inattention  (texting..?) or nodding off briefly -the slight rocking and swaying from riding in the cab can cause a feeling of drowsiness..  But even still on passenger trains there was always a 2nd engineer qualified to take control if a situation required. 
    There will be an investigation to try determine the exact cause. 
      December 19, 2017 8:10 AM MST
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  • 113301
     You were? Wow! Thank you for your reply Kg and Happy Tuesday. Nothing like getting info "from the horse's mouth" so to speak. Having an experienced person answer is very helpful. :)
      December 19, 2017 10:31 AM MST
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  • 32536
    Sounds like the route is not marked well. 
    It went from a 80mph section to a 30mph with no gradual slow down. The engineer may have simply missed the sign. 

    On highways, we never go from 70mph to 20 or 30mph, we have a slow down going from 70...50...40...20.
    Go directly from 80 to 30 is dangerous in and of itself whether in a train or a car.
      December 19, 2017 9:46 AM MST
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  • 113301
    Was the engineer in complete control or did some electronic thingy call the shots? Thank you for your reply m2c.
      December 19, 2017 10:26 AM MST
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  • 32536
    As I understand it the engineers are in complete control.
      December 19, 2017 10:33 AM MST
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  • 113301
      I wonder if the Engineer had a stroke or heart attack then? I mean that train was going almost 3 times faster than it should have been at that location and it was inevitable that it would derail. Thank you for your reply m2c!  So there are no electronc guards against human error? I think there should.
      December 20, 2017 5:28 AM MST
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  • 6023
    From what I have heard ... there is a device that can be added to trains to let the engineer know if they are going over the speed limit, and the AMTRAK didn't have it.

    AMTRAK also opened a new route that day, and I'm not sure but the section where the train derailed may have been part of that new route.
      December 19, 2017 10:33 AM MST
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  • 32536
    I believe they said the tracks have the equipment but the train did  not.
      December 19, 2017 10:34 AM MST
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  • 113301
    So more than one strike against it then it seems. I wonder why a train cannot have a Governor that overrides bad decisions/human error? A program that guides the train and keeps it from going 80 miles an hour when it should be going 30? Thank you for your thoughtful reply Walt. I guess they're still trying to figure out what the he** went wrong. Well they know what went wrong. Now they have to find out WHY?   :)
      December 20, 2017 5:30 AM MST
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  • 5354
    Road signs and 30 mile zones apply to cars. Trains have their own roads/rails and their own speed limits. and they too go to fast sometimes.sometimes.
    The picture below is from a similar accident in Bulgaria in December last year


      December 19, 2017 3:33 PM MST
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  • 13395
    'Going to fast' the hogs (engineers) call that straightening out the curves.
      December 19, 2017 4:08 PM MST
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  • 113301
    Why can't trains be programmed to AUTOMATICALLY slow down when they should? Something that overrides a bad decision/human error? I don't know how stuff like that works JakobA but don't they have "Governors" on cars that when engaged will keep the car going at a specific speed unless you purposely turn it off? Thank you for your reply and the awful graphic. The "awful" isn't your fault of course. You never know what the outcome will be of anything you do or don't do any more. Life's a crapshoot! :( Happy Wednesday m'dear! :)
      December 20, 2017 5:34 AM MST
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  • 5354
    It may eliminate human error, but it wont eliminate programming errors.

    Also, and even more important, It would be a message to the driver that he did not matter. Actually such devices do exist, they are used in the new "Capsule trains" where individual capsules run on MagLew tracks and each capsule only have room for a family with kids, They have no driver at all, just programming. This post was edited by JakobA the unAmerican. at December 20, 2017 7:39 AM MST
      December 20, 2017 7:28 AM MST
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  • 113301
    What kind of quality control do they have on programming? Years ago our company was a BETA site for testing of some new software that one of our suppliers was developing. After working with it and trying it out I sent a report to them about the glitches I found. Of course others were sent it too and also tried it out and sent in reports. When it was completed we got the program for free as a thank you. How do you test programming for a train? Thank you for your reply JakobA! :)
      December 20, 2017 7:33 AM MST
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  • 5354
    Testing is near impossible in the real world. Fx; In the fall many trees shed their fruit and squashed fruit on the track is likely to make it slippery (or not, if it is walnuts) there are many such seasonal or occasional situations that need a judgement call from a human being, should we slow down?
      December 20, 2017 7:47 AM MST
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  • 113301
    So nature intervenes (squashed fruit on tracks) and we can't anticipate it! There are some jobs that involve taking lives. A drunk pilot could cause a fatal plane crash. A train engineer who is texting can cause a train to derail/crash killing passengers. A school bus driver who is high on drugs can potentially kill the kids. The world is a very dangerous place...especially when humans are involved. I guess we just roll the dice and live with the outcome. Hoping/fingers crossed/praying that such outcome won't turn into a tragedy/disaster. Thank you for your reply JakobA and Happy Thursday! :)
      December 21, 2017 2:44 AM MST
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