Discussion » Statements » Rosie's Corner » December 7, 1941. Pearl Harbor. Honolulu, Hawaii. A day of infamy. A date no one will ever forget. Will Jan. 20, 2017 share the same fate?
RosieG

December 7, 1941. Pearl Harbor. Honolulu, Hawaii. A day of infamy. A date no one will ever forget. Will Jan. 20, 2017 share the same fate?

Posted - January 20, 2018
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Responses


  • 53825


    Yeah, real good way to commemorate the sacrifices of more than 3,000 killed and countless wounded at Pearl Harbor just to further your liberal hate-speech.   





      January 20, 2018 9:33 AM MST
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  • 7280
    January 20, 2017---Trumps inauguration Day---may well be known as another "day of infamy" in which the principles embraced by those killed and wounded at Pearl Harbor that day were first brought under attack.

    Trump supporters should be ready to share the same shame for their leader as the Japanese deserved for theirs.
      January 20, 2018 1:04 PM MST
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  • 53825


       A couple of years ago, I posted a rebuttal to something that Rosie had written, and a third member agreed with my position. Rosie chose to insult that person by referring to him/her as my "sycophant".  
      I wonder if she also finds it appropriate to consider you to be her sycophant?  Hmmmm. 
    --
      January 20, 2018 9:18 PM MST
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  • 7280

    Did you look up the definition of sycophant at that time?---NO ONE would ever think to use the world obsequious and think it applied to me. 

    (And if I recall correctly, I had occasion to post in a comment to you shortly after I joined this site  that I had no particular interest in defending Rosie.)

    And if you don't think that his inauguration---an unavoidable tragedy precipitated by the previous tragedy of his election by a minority of the electorate, but who apparently compose the majority of Americans who "just didn't and still don't 'get it'"---....well, "exeunt" for me on that line of thought.

    At any rate, I just hope that Trump and his supporters are no more successful in their attack on America and its values than the Japanese ultimately were.

    North Korea poses less threat to the American way of life than Trump and his supporters do---and Trump supporters don't realize which side they have joined in that war. 

    This post was edited by tom jackson at January 21, 2018 3:26 PM MST
      January 21, 2018 2:10 PM MST
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  • 113301
    :):):)
      January 21, 2018 3:10 AM MST
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  • Not only that my friend, but to mention the two events  in the same breath leaves no doubt about the hysterical desperation of these folks.
      January 20, 2018 3:22 PM MST
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  • 7280
    I suspect you have never read a book called The Intellectual Life.  (It was required reading for the my entire freshman class 54 years ago.)

    It explains why when I read "Not only that ...., but to mention the two events in the same breath leaves no doubt about the hysterical desperation of these folks" that I felt a sense of sadness.

    And it saddens me more to remember that "just not getting it" goes far too deep in some people' souls.

    As William F Buckley Jr. once said in his column,  "How does one know when one is entering a Dark Age?"

    And I believe he was a conservative......not a liberal.

    Edit:   And I can't think of anyone who would think of me and "hysterical desperation" in the same time frame. This post was edited by tom jackson at January 21, 2018 2:32 PM MST
      January 21, 2018 2:22 PM MST
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  • 46117
    First of all, I think you might look a little deeper into the machinations of Pearl Harbor before you go spouting off all patriotic and all.  America is sneaky.

    Not the Japanese. 

    On Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan launched a sneak attack on the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor, shattering the peace of a beautiful Hawaiian morning and leaving much of the fleet broken and burning. The destruction and death that the Japanese military visited upon Pearl Harbor that day — 18 naval vessels (including eight battleships) sunk or heavily damaged, 188 planes destroyed, over 2,000 servicemen killed — were exacerbated by the fact that American commanders in Hawaii were caught by surprise. But that was not the case in Washington.

    Comprehensive research has shown not only that Washington knew in advance of the attack, but that it deliberately withheld its foreknowledge from our commanders in Hawaii in the hope that the "surprise" attack would catapult the U.S. into World War II. Oliver Lyttleton, British Minister of Production, stated in 1944: "Japan was provoked into attacking America at Pearl Harbor. It is a travesty of history to say that America was forced into the war."

    This post was edited by WM BARR . =ABSOLUTE TRASH at January 21, 2018 5:47 PM MST
      January 21, 2018 2:16 PM MST
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  • 7280
    I am aware of that, by the way.  

    But the attack on Pearl Harbor was the intent of the Japanese.

    (If a murder says it's the cops' fault he's in jail, that's only the proximate cause of his incarceration.  He's in jail because he committed a murder, not because someone was unable to prevent him from killing.)
      January 21, 2018 2:27 PM MST
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  • 53825


      None of what you have written or what Rosie wrote absolve that fact that the two events do not even begin to compare with each other, nor excuse the implications made here.  Regardless of the facts that led up to the Pearl Harbor attack, its outcome doesn't have any similarity to Trump being sworn in.


    --
      January 21, 2018 5:50 PM MST
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  • 7280
    You are entitled to make such a thesis statement regarding the similarity of those two events.

    And although you may be hard pressed to defend that statement in a few years, I actually hope you can.
      January 21, 2018 7:00 PM MST
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  • 53825


    Tom Jackson, I haven't made any type of statement about the similarity, thesis or otherwise.  My statement is clearly about the lack of similarity between the two events.  Please read for comprehension, not just to further your position.
    --
      January 21, 2018 7:28 PM MST
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  • 7280

    Randy D, I will accept the fact that you are a grammar expert.  I am one as well, and that makes it quite easy for me to recognize it in you.

    But given what I think can be reasonably inferred from what you post, we may well differ as to what you may or may not have "clearly" said.

    As far as "furthering my position," I have no need to do that.  I have enough knowledge to post my own truth on this site.  Use it, discard it, laugh at it---at your leisure.  I seldom choose to bother trying to "prove what I say."




      January 21, 2018 8:04 PM MST
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  • 53825


    It cannot be misconstrued that I advocated tying the two events as being similar.  If you're so good at grammar, how did you assume that I advocated any similarity?  Since you specifically wrote that I had, there is no other impression to be taken than you misread what I wrote.  If you see it differently, you'd have to show where or how, which I believe will be impossible, in light of no such evidence existing.  If it is your desire to put words in my mouth, I don't understand why you would invest yourself in a useless venture.  The words I wrote are there to be read by anyone, yourself included.  
    --
      January 21, 2018 8:54 PM MST
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  • 5391
    This analogy is just repugnant, Rosie.

    The events of a rather pallid inauguration do not belong in any comparison to a single villainous act of war that caused the deaths of thousands and cast the nation into a worldwide conflagration that killed many millions more. 
    What’s next, comparing Trump’s inadequacies to the Holocaust? Get real.

    If you wanna get down to it, the real tragedy occurred the previous November, when we were stuck with only a choice between two really crappy candidates. 

    In what seems a rabid quest for affirmation, you’ve overstepped the bounds of not only fair comparison, but also reason and dignity.
    Disappointing. This post was edited by Don Barzini at January 21, 2018 2:39 PM MST
      January 20, 2018 9:37 PM MST
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  • 113301
    You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Am I entitled to mine or is that just a one-way street? With his hatred of the AHCA, his hatred of people of color. With his obscene love of making money to the extent of wiping out EPA regs and unprotecting our national forests so folks can go in and make a lotta money...with his savage vicious mouth insulting a possibly unstable North Korean leader...with his "cut cut cut" bill that pays the obscenely wealthy more money and will pay for it (via Paul Ryan's efforts) by savaging Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security. With his turning his back on Puerto Rico. With his rejecting refugees and immigrants. Do you really think he won't be responsible for deaths? Contaminated air, water, ground is now  all ours. Dropping certain FDA regs means your food, cosmetics (your wife's I trust) and prescription drugs will be less safe because there will fewer protections and fewer inspectors. With his proclivity for shooting off his mouth and saying horrendous things to people and never having to be accountable for it. You really think blood won't be on his hands? Well what you think is whatever you think. I say what I think and I mean what I say. Every year on January 20 there will be marches and protests. The protest marches that occurred the day after the inauguration in 2017 were far larger than any inauguration crowds. Donald John Trump is detested not only at home but worldwide. If my words offend you that is just part of the territory I inhabit. I shall not apologize for what I said. It is my truth and I think apologizing for speaking the truth is absurd. I think donjohn is a terrible evil that Americans willingly brought to us and I don't know if our country will ever recover from what he has done so far. What he plans to do and will get away with futurely I'm sure will make the situation even more dire. I see him as EVIL with no redeeming values. None. Zero. So thanks for answering questions in the past. I have enjoyed our conversations. I trust your answer to this question will be your farewell appearance DonB. Godspeed, good luck and have a good life. Thank you for your reply. This post was edited by RosieG at January 21, 2018 5:27 AM MST
      January 21, 2018 2:18 AM MST
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  • 5391
    I do not dispute your right to expressing your opinion, Rosie, you typically do a remarkable job in that regard. I cannot say we will always agree. We can learn more from honest disagreement than we ever will from blowing sunshine at each other. There are certainly other areas we can identify common ground, some of which you mentioned in your response.

    I simply find in this instance that the comparison is badly made. It has the effect of trivializing a truly horrific historical event that resulted in thousands of deaths and breathtaking destruction, for the sake of elevating a personal grievance that, even a year later, has caused neither death nor physical destruction. 

    I do think our opinions of the current WH occupant are aligned, but the scale of our preoccupation is much different.
    I bid you not to give up your inquiries, you do post a gem from time to time. This post was edited by Don Barzini at January 22, 2018 12:30 AM MST
      January 21, 2018 5:51 AM MST
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  • 7280
    A new phrase for my repertoire---"blowing sunshine at each other."  Never heard that before.
      January 21, 2018 2:29 PM MST
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  • 46117
    DON,  The Holocaust is nothing compared to what this PIG has set in motion.  Don't KID yourself.  We are falling rapidly down a black hole of climate destruction and nuclear war. 

    We will long for the days of Hitler if this pig is not ousted.  It may already be too late.  His minions are marching in droves.



      January 21, 2018 2:22 PM MST
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  • 5391
    I respect your passion, Sharonna. I don’t doubt that our Prez will generate even greater challenges, but the Holocaust? Hmmm. I didn’t vote for the guy either. 
    I would remind you that we Americans are not solely the cause of Climate Change, it is a bit frivolous to pin that on Trump alone. 
    But no argument from me that we’d be better off without him. 
      January 21, 2018 3:23 PM MST
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  • Great response Don B. Liberals left reason and dignity far behind a long time ago. The use of the adjectives rabid and repugnant is really an act of kindness.
      January 21, 2018 2:47 PM MST
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  • 46117

    President Trump Names January 20, 2017, a National Holiday
    ByFrank Camp
    @FrankDCamp
    January 23, 2017

    THIS IS ANOTHER PLOY BY A SHAMELESS SELF-PROMOTER.  He gets to let everyone know he made a holiday now?   OH BROTHER.

    In a document released Monday, President Donald Trump named January 20, 2017, "National Day of Patriotic Devotion." The document, clearly not written by the president, due to its grammatical correctness, clear sentence structure, and lack of the word "tremendous," reads in part:

    "A new national pride stirs the American soul and inspires the American heart. We are one people, united by a common destiny and a shared purpose...Our Constitution is written on parchment, but it lives in the hearts of the American people. There is no freedom where the people do not believe in it; no law where the people do not follow it; and no peace where the people do not pray for it...

    Now, therefore, I, Donald J. Trump, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim January 20, 2017, as National Day of Patriotic Devotion in order to strengthen our bonds to each other and to our country--and to renew the duties of Government to the people."

    According to CNBC, while the President of the United States has the authority to create one-day holidays, it takes Congress to create permanent federal holidays. George W. Bush declared September 11, 2002, "Patriot Day." He also called for a "national day of mourning" following Ronald Reagan's death in 2004. Similarly, Barack Obama declared September 11, 2014, "Patriot Day and National Day of Service and Remembrance."

    Actually, Trump declaring his inauguration day a national day began, as all stupid things apparently do, with Barack Obama. Obama declared January 20, 2009 "National Day of Renewal and Reconciliation":

    As I take the sacred oath of the highest office in the land, I am humbled by the responsibility placed upon my shoulders, renewed by the courage and decency of the American people, and fortified by my faith in an awesome God ... On this Inauguration Day, we are reminded that we are heirs to over two centuries of American democracy, and that this legacy is not simply a birthright — it is a glorious burden. Now it falls to us to come together as a people to carry it forward once more.

    NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim January 20, 2009, a National Day of Renewal and Reconciliation, and call upon all of our citizens to serve one another and the common purpose of remaking this Nation for our new century.

    IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twentieth day of January, in the year of our Lord two thousand nine, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-third.

    However, Trump's one-off holiday was declared three days after it was to take place, making it somehow even less than symbolic. In all likelihood, Donald Trump wanted to create the holiday because of the intensely divided condition in which the United States currently stands.

    Happy National Day of Patriotic Devotion...three days ago. This post was edited by WM BARR . =ABSOLUTE TRASH at January 21, 2018 3:24 PM MST
      January 21, 2018 2:22 PM MST
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