Christians continue to argue that God MEANT thou shalt not murder so killing is fine and not in any conflict with Christianity. Where does the legal definition of murder first appear? Does it predate Moses' receiving the 10 commandments from God or does it post date it? The dictionary definitions are as stated below VERBATIM..
KILLING: To deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay
MURDER: The killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law.
If the LAW comes long after the commandments were received how could God have meant murder and not killing? THOU SHALT NOT KILL is very simple. The insistence by some that God MEANT Thou shalt not murder is specious and has no basis in fact. Does it? Where, how, when, why?
Going by Bible chronology, the ten commandments were given in the year 1513 B.C.E.
The only dates that I know of that biblical scholars and secular agree on are Tiberius Caesar's reign starting in 14 C.E. and
October 5, 539 B.C.E. (Gregorian calendar), when Babylon fell before the invading Medo-Persian armies under the command of Cyrus the Great.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great
Most other dates vary according to the historian and the source used.
I'll try to answer about the difference between murder and kill in a separate answer as there is a difference.
The definitions you gave in your question about killing and murder seem to be pretty much spot on. There is a difference. To kill an animal to eat is not murder. For a government to kill a murderer is not murder.
To murder is always to kill but to kill is not always to murder. Murdering always involves killing but killing does not always involve murdering although it sometimes does.
Murder in the NASB:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=murder&t=NASB#s=s_primary_0_1
Killing in the NASB:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=kill&t=NASB#s=s_primary_0_1
The KJV erroneously used the word kill in Exodus 20:13 rather than murder:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb/exo/20/13/t_bibles_70013
| KJV |  |
Thou shalt not kill.
|
| NKJV | |
“You shall not murder.
|
| NLT | |
“You must not murder.
|
| NIV | |
“You shall not murder.
|
| ESV | |
|
| HCSB | |
Do not murder. |
| RVR60 | |
No matarás.
|
| NASB | |
“You shall not murder.
|
n
Matthew 19: KJV
16 ¶And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Verse 18 """Thou shalt do no Murder"""" ...
Wait.
I am going to make the popcorn.
BRB
"Murder is only killing without a license...and everybody kills."
--Charles Bronson, The Mechanic (1972)
If it's so tiresome why do you feel compelled to bring it up, yeat again?
Thank you for you reply and the links tex and Happy Tuesday! :)
Thank you for your reply tex. How do you know the KJV was erroneous and not all the other versions? No disrespect intended my friend. :)
Mahalo for your reply OS. Who knew that Bronson (or the writer) was such a philosopher? :)
BRB? Vass iss dat Uc
?
God gave Moses the Ten Commandments (Exodus Ch. 20), followed by the Law (Exodus Ch. 21) wherein the intential taking of a life (murder) is differentiated from the unintentional.
Be right back, Rosie :-)
As noted in AdamAPAD's answer, even the KJV has Jesus quoting it as 'murder' rather than 'kill'.
Here is an article from Awake 12/22/1978:
The Bible’s View
Did God Mean “Thou Shalt Not Kill”?
WHO has not heard someone say, ‘In the Ten Commandments God commands, “Thou shalt not kill”’? During recent wars some men gave that as their reason for refusing to fight. It also comes up in discussions of capital punishment.
Yet others refer to this command when trying to show that the Bible is contradictory. One booklet with that aim has a heading “Killing Forbidden” and lists “Thou shalt not kill. (Ex. xx. 13.)” but then calls attention to cases in which God told the Israelites to execute others. (Ex. 32:27; 2 Ki. 10:11, 30) And Jehovah directed the Israelites to exterminate enemy nations. (Deut. 7:1, 2, 16; 12:31; Josh. 6:12-21) So did God really command, “Thou shalt not kill”? What does the sixth of the Ten Commandments mean? And does it categorically rule out warfare and capital punishment?
The phrase “Thou shalt not kill” sounds familiar to most persons for that is how some popular Bibles render Exodus 20:13. (Deut. 5:17) If, though, you look up this text in many modern translations, you will likely find “You must not murder” or “You must not commit murder.” Why the difference?
The original Hebrew word involved is ratsahh, which literally means “to break” or “to dash to pieces.” In his Hebrew lexicon, scholar John Parkhurst explains that in the Bible ratsahh “denotes manslaughter or murder, i.e. either the accidental or wilful taking away of a man’s life.”
It is noteworthy that of the 47 times ratsahh is used in the Hebrew Scriptures, 33 involve Israel’s cities of refuge. These served in cases where one man took another’s life. If it was determined judicially that the manslaughter was unintentional, the manslayer could remain in the city. But if legal investigation showed that he killed with malice or deliberateness, he would pay with his own life. With these two possibilities in mind, notice how ratsahh is appropriately rendered three times:
“As cities of refuge they will serve for you, and the manslayer must flee there who fatally strikes a soul unintentionally. . . . Now if it was with an instrument of iron [deliberately used as a weapon] that he has struck him so that he dies, he is a murderer. Without fail the murderer should be put to death.”—Num. 35:6, 11-34; Deut. 4:41-43; 19:1-7; Josh. 20:2-6; 21:13-39.
Other verses indicate that ratsahh usually applied to the taking of human life unlawfully, contrary to God’s law. Observe the associated things mentioned in Hosea 4:2: “There are the pronouncing of curses and practicing of deception and murdering and stealing and committing of adultery that have broken forth, and acts of bloodshed have touched other acts of bloodshed.”—Jer. 7:9.
As shown above in the punishment for the deliberate murderer, not all taking of human life was considered ratsahh (murder), nor would it be prohibited by the sixth of the Ten Commandments. After the flood Jehovah God pointedly told Noah: “Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image he made man.” (Gen. 9:6) Yes, even before he gave a law code to Israel, God permitted capital punishment. “Shedding man’s blood” by murder was what was forbidden by the Sixth Commandment, not the legal execution of a murderer.
This helps us to appreciate the use of ratsahh in connection with King Ahab. The king coveted Naboth’s vineyard and let the man be killed to get it. It was not a case of King Ahab’s directing a legally justified execution of someone who had committed a capital offense in Israel. Rather, it was an illegal killing of a man, something forbidden by the Sixth Commandment. Ahab thus was a “murderer” and deserved to die.—1 Ki. 21:1-10; 2 Ki. 6:32; Lev. 24:17.
But what about war? Were Israel’s wars in violation of God’s command that is fittingly rendered, “You must not murder”?
No, they were not. The fact is that the Bible never uses the term ratsahh (murder) regarding any of those wars. When the Israelites warred at God’s command, they were not acting illegally. They were authorized by and were being directed by the Supreme Lawgiver. (Isa. 33:22; Ps. 19:7) These wars were not wars for limitless territorial conquest, like so many of the national wars in recent times. They were not wars motivated by economic greed. Nor were they wars that violated legally arranged peace treaties or non-aggression pacts, as have some wars in modern history.
Absolutely no nation on earth today is composed entirely of persons worshiping Jehovah, miraculously directed by him through prophets and having a Divine grant to possess a certain portion of the earth. But all of that was the case with ancient Israel. Jehovah had noted that the inhabitants of Canaan were steeped in iniquity, being morally depraved and deserving of execution. (Gen. 15:13-21; Lev. 18:24, 25) As the owner of the entire earth, God determined to give the land to the nation of Israel. And, under the direction of leaders he specially chose, God used Israel to carry out his judgment against the Canaanites.—Deut. 9:4, 5; 12:31; Josh. 10:40.
Hence, in executing Jehovah’s legal and morally upright judgments, or when defending their God-provided land, the Israelites were not guilty of violating the command, “You must not murder.”
What about Christians? Since the Sixth Commandment merely restated what God had said earlier through Noah to the whole human family, we are still obliged to avoid murdering. In fact, the closing chapters of the Bible warn us that unrepentant murderers will experience eternal destruction in the “second death.” (Rev. 21:8; 22:15) How important it thus is to avoid sharing in taking human lives without God’s specifically stated authorization. Consistent with this, Isaiah 2:3, 4 prophetically describes God’s true worshipers, saying: “And many peoples will certainly go and say: ‘Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, . . .’ And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. . . . Neither will they learn war anymore.”
Furthermore, Christians are alerted to the fact that murders issue from a bad heart. (Matt. 5:21-26; 15:19) If a person allowed hatred for a fellow Christian to develop in his heart, he would as much as be a manslayer or a murderer, something that we must avoid.—1 John 3:15.
So the rendering “Thou shalt not kill” does not truly convey the real flavor of the Sixth Commandment. It is more properly translated “You must not murder.” Appreciating this aids us to see that Israel’s righteous wars did not violate that command. And we can better sense its significance as to our conduct and attitude toward taking human life.
[Footnotes]
New World Translation, Today’s English Version, The New English Bible as well as translations by Moffatt, Fenton, T. F. Meek and R. Knox.
You're welcome. The confirmed date of Tiberius Caesar's reign also helps confirm Bible prophecy and the fact that the Bible is from God:
http://answermug.com/forum/topics/are-you-familiar-with-the-prophecy-about-the-timing-of-the
Oh. Did you come right
back sweetie? Thanks for the clarification and Happy Tuesday to thee Uc! :)
Hi RosieG, did you see my comment #2? I think it really does a good job of clarifying the difference? I'll post it on your other questions about the difference between murdering and killing if I can find them.
