What are your views on jehovah's witnesses stance on blood?

Don thanks for your reply and please take a look at https://ajwrb.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-tens-of-thousands-dead-in-hidden-tragedy This is a site run by both current and ex members of jw. I have given a short extract below but it is well worth a look to see fully how the figures were arrived at and the reasoning behind it. I never thought I would see the day that I would support anything that jw members were doing but I support this group 100% It is also interesting to note how grass root jw members are reacting to this, you can see some of their reactions at https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/202479/bombshell-ajwrb-real I hope you can spare a few minuts to check it out.

The impact on the lives of Jehovah’s Witnesses forced to observe this policy has been devastating, both on an individual level, and as an organization. We compiled the Watchtower’s annual reports from 1961, the year that taking a blood transfusion became a disfellowshipping offense, up to 2016. During that 56 year period, there were average annual publishers of 3,957,868. If we multiply this figure by 56 (years) and by the annual death factor of 0.015%, there have been approximately 33,246 deaths caused by Watchtower’s policy during that period. It is not an exaggeration to think of this as a tragedy approaching genocide.

Conservative Estimates

Staggering as these numbers are, it is a conservative estimate of the loss of life. As noted above, Dr. Muramoto rounded down the actual increase in mortality from 1.4% to 1%. If we use the 1.4% mortality rate (the actual conclusion reached by Kitchens) this results in casualties that are 40% higher: 1708 deaths caused by Watchtower’s blood policy in 2016, and a total of 46,544 deaths between 1961-2016.

Marvin Shilmer notes that the New Zealand study draws from the records of four hospitals in the more densely populated Northern and midland regions which contain 57% of the country’s population. New Zealand has more than eighty hospitals in less densely populated regions that account for approximately 43% of the county’s population, and they are similarly equipped. If the mortality rate is appropriately prorated for 57% of the nation’s population, it results in an increase of the annual mortality factor to .00026, and the extrapolation indicates 2,114 deaths caused by Watchtower’s blood policy in 2016, and 57,626 deaths between 1961-2016.

While actual numbers can never be known, the most likely toll probably falls somewhere between these various estimates. To offer perspective, consider there were 33,739 U.S. Service members killed in action in the Korean War,⁸ and 40,934 U.S. Service members killed in action in the Vietnam War.⁹ If we add up all of the deaths caused by terrorist attacks attributed the Taliban, Al-Qa’ida, Boko Haram, and ISIL between 2000-2013, we arrive at a total of 23,899.¹⁰ 

These numbers will come as a surprise to many, particularly Jehovah’s Witnesses. AJWRB has seen many examples of deaths that have occurred due to the blood ban, and we have documented many of these experiences so that others can understand what has happened and learn from it. The simple truth, however, is that the Watchtower Society is a very large organization with more than 8 million members at present. When one of these cases leads to a premature death, it is always tragic. However, it is seldom newsworthy unless a child, adolescent or pregnant JW is involved. As a result, the vast majority of these cases are not covered by the media and remain unknown.

This is particularly the case when countries like the United States have health privacy laws that restrict doctors from sharing the medical information of their patients. We typically only learn of cases where:

• AJWRB members personally report experiences.
• Non Jehovah’s Witness family members report to the media.
• Physicians or hospitals go to court to obtain a court order to treat a minor JW.

Much of the shock value of these death estimates is related to the sheer global size of the JW community. Let’s illustrate. If the average congregation has about 100 publishers, and the average circuit consists of about 20 congregations, our conservative estimate suggests there is approximately 1 death in that circuit every 3.3 years as a result of the blood policy. The typical JW would expect to see one premature death in their congregation every 66.6 years. If they meet in a Kingdom Hall that has three congregations and personally know 300 JW’s, they might expect to learn of one blood policy related death every 22.2 years. The average JW who has been a member for ten years or less is unlikely to know of a single case.

Ps not sure if links work, you may have to copy paste into browser.

First of all, excellent information, and the video was enlightening. 

Perhaps my post was a bit too succinct. I could have gone on at length on the nature of my legion of “disagreements“ with the policies and practices of this moronic cult, and the faith insanity you explored here does nothing but further reinforce my view. It should duly awaken others not so well informed as we.

How can anyone of truly sound mind subject themselves to this form of pseudo-intellectual slavery? Not to mention polluting the tender minds of children. Borders on criminal. 

Sure, it’s incredibly sad, even tragic, and worse, entirely preventable. But what we see is the consequence of bad decisions, the by-product of unfettered ignorance stoked by doctrines of fear and false hope. We on the outside might only imagine the extent of this reality.

One hopes that the (apparently) many objecting JW’s will find the fortitude to shed the peril they bring upon themselves. 

While I feel real sadness in the waste of lives, I am reminded that nature has a fickle way of winnowing out those qualities of species that fail the test of usefulness.  It’s been called Darwinism. This post was edited by Don Barzini at July 4, 2018 3:44 PM MDT

It certainly is a ray of hope that there is a move afoot to make change from the inside but I fear if the 'culprits' are discovered, they will surely be thrown out of this so called religion.

Ps. Don, beware the AM equivalent of the taliban are on the prowl, it appears that we are not allowed to call a cult a cult, I had a couple of posts deleted for this very crime against the english language as spoken in Amland. Another thing that is worthy of a reprimand is that if you reply twice to one comment then this heinous crime is known as 'following', I gather this is AM speak for stalking but if I am wrong in this then no doubt I will have another email later to correct me. I as an atheist must show respect to religions and the religious views of others (yes that is what I was told) while these same others are perfectly free to merrily slag each other's religions and beliefs rotten verbally here, while slaughtering each other in the real world, of course we cannot include that well respected religious group known as jehovah's witnesses in the slaughter of others, they keep their slaughter inhouse just as they do their child abuse. Seems Charlie was spot on, if they keep it up they will die out but what a waste of life.

Yes, so true.

I admit to straining the boundaries of PC, as I lack the gene for unlimited tolerance of inanity, and accordingly, the Truth Police have occasionally sent me mail as well. 

That said, my intent/hope is to demonstrate to closet skeptics that it is ok to challenge existing beliefs, that there are real reasons for doing so, and other rational people who do. 


This post was edited by Don Barzini at July 4, 2018 3:44 PM MDT

Seems we have a lot in common regarding motives, I would be the first to admit that I do not call a spade a shovel but not being able to call a cult a cult even when it perfectly fits the dictionary definition of what a cult is, it might as well be 1984 here in Amland.
I wonder if it is 'illegal' not to respect the beliefs of those other well respected religious groups such as the Taliban, Al-Qa’ida, Boko Haram, and ISIL who are just expressing their religious views in a positive manner by following the old adage of actions speaking louder than words?

It certainly would be if this were a site popular in, say, Pakistan, but until the literacy rate and internet there arise from the Middle Ages, we are probably safe from direct challenges by actual members of these groups.
Not that I wouldn’t welcome the debate...

Hate seems to be a perfect bond of union for some. Rather or not something is true doesn't seem to matter as much as painting JW's as either brain dead or monsters.

A bit of a warning for ya'll, there are some that hide what they are. There are some older men pretending to be young men or girls for sinister purposes. There was a moderator on answerbag, 'The Chief', that was able to pull up members IP address. There was a whole thread of transgendered JW's and ex-JW's that all had related IP's. Some times referred to as sockpuppets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)
A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term, a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock, originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an Internet community who spoke to, or about, themselves while pretending to be another person.^[1]

As evidenced by the constant onslaught of hateful comments in the religion section by some people, there are some individuals that like to parrot anything they can to make those that don't believe like themselves appear to be either naive or monsters, exaggerations not withstanding.

Tex, what I also find intriguing is the one-sided bias mentality. I admire your tenacity and endurance. My husband and i encountered the hatred of so many so called professionals that refused to respect our stance. I was amazed at the level of their ignorance and idiocy. 

If that were the only "religion" out there, I would be bound by my intellectual integrity to question my current conclusions that gods do exist.

Indeed, Tom.
I dare say we might be on the same side of the aisle if it were. How glaringly obvious does a sham need to be? 

I see them as a kind of pyramid selling company, nothing to do with religion, just using the gullible as slaves, in fact even worse, the slaves have to pay to work. One hell of a scam, wonder how they got away with it for so long. 

I think some parallels can be made of JW’s governing body with another blatant scam, Scientology. 

Both of them appear to have $$$$$$ at the top of their agenda, I am not a member but as far as I understand it the grass root jw want to build a hall, the watchtower loan them the money, the same money that they donated/sold propaganda for and gave to watchtower, they then get their own money back to build a hall, which they are responsible for keeping maintained, that will forever remain the property of the watchtower, the same money must be paid back (not sure if interest is part of the deal) and the poor buggers must go out and sell more propaganda to get the money to pay back to the watchtower.
Again I am not sure but I believe that the propaganda used to be sold but they risked losing their charity status if sold, so now the sheep need to pay the watchtower for each delivery of propaganda, then go out and if not sell it at least come pack with enough voluntary (foot in the door) contributions to cover the layout with any excess going into the hall's bank account and any money over a certain amount in the bank account must be sent to the watchtower. So the watchtower have their printing costs/overheads covered regardless of 'sales'
If that is not a con/scam then I do not know what is

The question for me is how can the participants not know? 

This is of course, rhetorical. There is inherently a great deal of denial going on there. 

I imagine many do not know simply because they are not told and as the are more or less forbidden to have friends outside of the cul.......oops nearly said the c word that along with being told that the secular world and any other religious group are all wrong and will lie to you, it i not so difficult to see why they do not know or if they do know they do not believe it.
I looked at the links near the top of this page and the first one I saw in the jw page says it all really.

 

'It appears, from my recent visit to www.ajwrb.org that there is an underground group of practising Jehovah's Witnesses who are seeking to change current blood doctrine. They call themselves the Associtated Jehovah's Witnesses for Reform on Blood, or the AJWRB. Does this group actually exist?

The question is important because it is solidarity alone that keeps the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society intact. If the AJWRB actually exists, it means there is a faction of dissenters within the WTBTS who are risking being disfellowshipped if discovered but who, if they are successful, will help to loosen the grip of the Governing Body on the rank and file.

If the group exists, does it not follow the hierarchy must know about them and must be trying to find out who they are? If it exists, and their number is significant, it pulls at the very underpinnings of the Society itself.'

The JWs and Scientology have many things in common as they do with other such like religions.
Such as separation of family and friends who are not members of the org.
Handling problems in house without calling law enforcement when needed.
Shunning if members are removed so they can no longer associate with others in the org.
Preaching that their way is the only way and everyone else is doomed, and leaving means they are doomed too.
These are common threads with all of those orgs.

This is exactly my point, Mom. These are some of the qualities that explicitly define a c - u - l - t. 
Another is a tendency -usually a point of their doctrine- that ALL views to the contrary are inherently hateful, and a path to imminent destruction. 

That's right, there are many good people involved in those Cs and it is not them that we are against. Just the ones who are brainwashing them to keep them under their thumb.

Agreed, please take a look at my reply to Don above.