Do you think, under the right set of circumstances, that it's possible for someone who adamantly says they would never do such a thing, to actually be fully capable.
Oh yes, and that applies to pretty much all of us. Even if we may not think so.
Maybe. We are all different and it's a waste of time to talk about what we or others might do in a given set of circumstances, especially emotionally-charged circumstances. I can say with absolute knowledge that very good people sometimes do horrible things.
MrWitch, I was thinking along those lines too. Kinda scary though.
I think we need to ask a problem child about that.
Sure...Things happen. I can see it being masnslaught more than murder.
For example...you and someone are fighting and they really piss you off. They shove you, you shove them down a flight of stairs and they break their neck. Ooops
History and psychology show that almost all humans are capable of murder in the heat of the moment if the emotional conditions are sufficiently provocative.
A person making such a claim may be young and inexperienced,
or have led a sheltered existence,
or may be deluded and in denial about what they know of their inner feelings and thoughts,
or may be consciously lying.
In order to say honestly that we would never kill in the heat of the moment, we would have to be prepared to allow ourselves or another to be killed, rather than take defensive and possibly lethal action - and we would have to have the emotional training to remain calm and rational in the face of proven and obvious threat.
If "the heat of passion" refers to emotions other than fear for one's own or another's life - say jealousy, or the last straw after years of being abused -- that puts a different slant on the situation. A person with tendencies to jealousy knows the intensity of their own rage. A person who is being abused knows how much they hate it, the extreme depth of their resentment, fear, and depression. Both types are likely to fantasise about killing the one they consider responsible for their unbearable pain. Lizzy Borden, the infamous axe murderer, was such a one.
Such murders are not as spontaneous as they might seem. It takes thought to go and fetch the axe, or to hide it ready to hand. One cannot lift or aim an axe, nor propel its weight through space, without the intent to do it. Is it possible to chop wood without intending to do so?
For most of my life, I would have made the claim that i could never kill anyone or any animal in the heat of the moment, or ever, under any circumstances.
After all, I've been a vegetarian and a pacifist for most of it. But I was deludedly naive. When it came to the time of having to look after my mother in her advanced old age, my sister, a diagnosed narcissist, became a horrendous source of constant harassment. She had been defrauding my senile mother of her money. When the accountant caught her, I was given legal guardianship. Her fury was relentless. She tried every trick imaginable to try to make it impossible for me.
Because trying to reason with her was impossible, and expressing my anger would have been both futile and counterproductive, I had to hold in my feelings. The result was that I began to fantasise about murdering her.
A little fantasy can't do any harm, right? After all, it's only in the mind. How those fantasies grew. I could write novels about the grim and ingenious methods. But it also made me depressed - I got to see a side of myself that I had never known existed -- I had to acknowledge to myself that I had the potential to murder. (It got so bad that I then wanted to commit suicide.) If she had come into the house and tried some of her tactics on us, it's possible that in the heat of the moment I might have killed her with the poker from the fireplace. And I could not have justly claimed diminished responsibility or temporary insanity. I would have had to cop a life sentence.
The turning point for my depression, for the start of the recovery, came when I realized that my fantasies were so grandiose that they were not possible. The relief came in the form of hysterical laughter. I was suddenly safe from myself.
So from my own experience I would say that under the right conditions, especially if the pressure continues for a long time, a great many people can be stressed or provoked to the point of murder.
And it is not something that I like admitting.
Yes, absolutely.
Here's an interesting read on the subject . . .
https://www.amazon.com/Murderer-Next-Door-Mind-Designed/dp/0143037056
Wow, that's quite a response. I agree, yes we are all capable of murder if pushed beyond our limits or if protecting an innocent person like a child or an elder.
What you are talking about are not crimes of passion.
Why do think manslaughter is not a lesser included to murder?
Thank you, Salt and Red Pepper.
I opened up the link and read the blurb. Interesting enough that I'll buy the book as I've never read anything in depth on that topic.
It is said it the Buddhist Abhidharma (earliest treatise on psychology and one which has had a profound effect on modern psychology since the 60's) that all people are capable of psychosis.
It isn't what I think - it's the legal definition provided when I searched the Internet and asked the difference between manslaughter and murder. Murder is premeditated and manslaughter is not.
Manslaughter is a lesser included to murder. The jury is the finder of fact. If they find there was no premeditation they may find for manslaughter. If the judge fails to give that instruction that is reversible error and grounds for appeal. "A defendant is entitled to an instruction on a “lesser included” offense only if there is enough evidence to permit a rational jury to conclude that he was guilty of it." Hill vs United States. However, in capital murder cases the lesser included offenses must be in the instructions.
This is my opinion. I have not kept completely current in criminal law but as far as I know, this is still the state of the subject.
There are three degrees of murder - first, second and third. If manslaughter is merely a lesser form of murder, why is it separate from one of the murder charges?
