Discussion » Questions » Religion and Spirituality » I have a serious question for people who consider themselves to be 'Bible-believing Christians' or are well-schooled in Christian Theology:

I have a serious question for people who consider themselves to be 'Bible-believing Christians' or are well-schooled in Christian Theology:

I'm trying to understand how and why certain societal practices that were once considered to be Godly are now considered to be wrong by mainstream Christians (When did polygamy become wrong, for example?)How do you sort it all out? And why is there so much division between certain denominations, sects, congregations, etc.? And how do you decide what the really important parts of the Bible are and which ones are ridiculous (like sacrificing children - everyone can agree that's not okay, right??)? 

Thanks in advance. 

 

Posted - April 16, 2021

Responses


  • 53509

     

      Well, I certainly don’t qualify as any type of Bible scholar, seminarian, or theologian, but if you’ll entertain a layman’s rudimentary understanding of it, I will give it a try. I had the honor of belonging to a church in my younger years wherein the Pastor was not only very well educated on the Bible (among many other religious and spiritual and history-related subjects), he was also quite adept at relaying that knowledge in parcels to the flock.

       Part of the answer is that that’s why there are an Old Testament and a New Testament.  There are various types of sections in both testaments that span multiple books of the Bible, one of the basic ones is considered “The Law” or “Laws”. There’s also “Prophecy” and several others.  The differences between the testaments and the reasons for separate testaments are that the life of Jesus Christ on earth was first of all foretold on the Old and realized in the New. Certain things that had been in effect during the Old were replaced in the new, such as Jesus being the sacrifice for all humans, so blood sacrifices of the Old no longer needed to be carried out. That’s just one example of laws or rules changing from the Old to the New.

      Additionally, translations of original texts into different languages has both added to and subtracted from what the Bible says, and centuries of human interpretations have also twisted the original Word.  Various sects or religions or cultures or countries use the Bible selectively, sometimes ignoring parts of it that don’t fit their agenda or magnifying parts that do. (As in slaveowners using the Bible to justify their practices, or Quakers using the Bible to justify peacefulness and abstaining from participating in war.) Merely overlooking biblical content or amplifying it is human nature.

      Of course, my caveat is that I’m giving an extremely basic thumbnail response that might even be picked apart by others who know more than I do, so I will not argue with anyone here who says I have it wrong. 

      Great question, it will be interesting to see some of the dialogue on this. 

    ~


    This post was edited by Randy D at April 17, 2021 8:26 PM MDT
      April 16, 2021 10:46 PM MDT
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  • 10052
    The Law, the Prophecy and what are the several others? 

    I've been to a Church of Friends. Very peaceful. I liked it. 

    So, how do you, Randy D, personally, decide what the really important parts are and which ones are more optional? Do the people in your church or faith community all pretty much agree on what is/isn't good in the eyes of God? (If this is too personal, I understand.)
      April 17, 2021 9:07 PM MDT
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  • 53509

     

      No, it’s not too personal to answer. I’ll handle your first question first. 

      It’s been far too many years for me to remember all of it; even as I was in the process of typing my answer, more of it came back to me, but not enough to give more detail.

      I have never read the entire Bible, and even some (not all) the parts I have read I am not 100% well-versed.  Additionally, having grown up from a small age in the faith and in the religion, my exposure to the Bible spans a large part of my life. As such, I have read, or heard, certain parts of the Bible when my level of even understanding individual words from it was not too adept. Before anyone picks that apart as an indictment against religion or spirituality, let make the correlation between that and many other things a small child reads or hears yet does not fully understand: I grew up when reciting the Pledge of Allegiance was a daily practice at school. I attended pre-school, I do not remember if at that age we recited the Pledge, perhaps I started doing it later in kindergarten or first grade. Either way, I remember that on those early years of reciting it, I didn’t even know what “pledge” or “allegiance” meant, the only pledge I knew was from the tv commercials about the furniture polish Lemon Pledge. Worse yet, I didn’t even have the second one right either, I thought I was supposed to be saying “a legents”. I didn’t know what a legents was, but it sure seemed pretty important because we had to Lemon Pledge it every morning at school. Getting back to religion and the Bible, even saying the Lord’s Prayer, I didn’t know what “hallowed would be thy name” meant. I guess it seems to a small kid that “Hal Olde would be thy name”.

      Moving from those points and tender age and understanding, of course I went through my time wherein I spake  as a child and understood as a child, but I eventually put away childish things and my understanding of things grew and developed. As I stated above, I have not studied the Bible as a bonafide scholar of it, nor as a seminarian, nor as a theologian, only as a congregant. As with any learning, some things we need to reread several times over a long period of time in order to understand them well. There are many parts of the Bible I have read and/or discussed repeatedly, yet there are also many parts that I’ve never read or discussed. You asked which parts I personally follow or do not follow. That’s a tall order, because not only is the Bible a very extensive work, I have just stated that I haven’t been through all of it. It’s also a tall order to cover the parts of it that I “do follow”, once again because of how immense it is. I will have to defer that for now.

      All human beings, especially when placed in groups, deviate on individual levels as to what they follow concerning the tenets of the group. That same Pastor I mentioned above even taught us that part. In a congregation of about 2,000 members, he would often end his sermons by asking, “Are all minds clear?” or, “Are we all in agreement?”  In the years I attended, I can’t remember even one person ever responding in the negative, however, the Pastor once pointed out to us that it’s impossible for all people in a large group to go away with the same understanding of a thing (think of the story of the nine blind people who touched different parts of an elephant and each described what it felt like, but there were nine wildly different interpretations), and even deeper than that, even in a church setting or especially in a church setting, he said that there were always some people among the flock who disagreed with what had just taken place but would keep it to themselves. Another example he gave was when he suggested further reading at home. He would say, “Someone out there is already thinking, ‘I ain’t going to read that, Pastor doesn’t know what he’s talking about.’” I can’t cite who believe what when it comes to others giving an open account of it, because there’s our public face and our inner thoughts. I have found stark differences in what people believe or like or follow, even among church participants.

      Over time, many believers of anything have a crisis of faith. Religion and spirituality aren’t the only areas where that happens. Look at relationships, education, jobs, budgets, certain products, perceptions about the home one lives in or the city one lives in, government/politicians, following health plans, diet/exercise, etc. I’ve written often of how much I love being a US Marine, how much I love the Marine Corps, even I had times of disillusionment there.
    ~

      April 18, 2021 6:50 AM MDT
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  • 2706
    I'll try to tackle the part of your question where you asked when did polygamy become wrong. Polygamy was never right, to begin with. God did not sanction polygamy in Old Testament times. Contrary to the suppositions many have accepted, God forbade it -- and punished for it!

     Many people recall a few Old Testament instances of plural wives and assume that God sanctioned polygamy. That assumption is absolutely false! God has never approved, nor made lawful, more than one living wife for any man. Quite the contrary, He forbade it, even to the kings of Israel, and that by written statute!

     The Bible records everything that pleases God. But it also records everything that displeases God. What displeases Him is sin and polygamy is one of those sins.
      April 16, 2021 11:55 PM MDT
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  • 19937
    "The Bible records everything that pleases God. But it also records everything that displeases God."  I'll assume, for the purposes of my comments, that there actually is a God. 

    The Bible was not written by God.  The only part of the Bible that might possibly be considered as having been written by God is the Ten Commandments.  From that, the Bible was written by man interpreting what he thought would please or displease God.  

    So many of the occurrences in the Bible have been scientifically proven to have occurred not by the hand of God, but by a more logical explanation.  Remember, that early man did not have the knowledge we have today.  Early man was superstitious and had to come up with some explanation for what was happening which, of course, they couldn't due to lack of knowledge, so they invented some mythical being to which they could ascribe things they couldn't explain themselves.  
      April 17, 2021 10:58 AM MDT
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  • 2706
      To put it simply, SavvyAnsley asked a Bible question and I gave a Bible answer and you seemed to disagree with my answer. I have no problem with that. It happens quite often. I disagree with a lot of what people say. I disagree with your response to my answer but I'm not going to get my britches in a bunch over it.

      I will say this though about faith and belief in God and the Bible. Many people say with confidence, that they believe in God. Many of these same people think that this is enough to guarantee that their sins are forgiven and gain them admission to Heaven. However, is this simple belief in God enough?

      While faith surely includes the element of belief, they are not one and the same. Certainly one must believe that something, or someone, exists before it is possible to put one’s faith in that person or thing. However, I can believe some things that do not affect my life.

    I believe Detroit exists, but I don't live my life any differently because of it. The Bible tells us that this type of belief is not true faith and will not result in a saving relationship with God. To put one’s faith in something, or someone means that one is putting his or her trust in that person or thing. Who or what one trusts can have far-reaching, even eternal, ramifications.

      So for me, when I answer a Bible question from the Bible, I take my belief and faith in the Bible very seriously. I also take very seriously my belief and faith in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. So nothing that happens and nothing anyone says to me about the Bible or how they view it, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit will ever change that.

    This is why I rarely get my britches in an uproar about it. People may not care but that's where I stand on the whole matter. I reiterate the reasons why I answer questions like this with such conviction is because of my belief, faith, and trust that the Bible is the Word of God and because I believe by faith that God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are who they claim to be. Perhaps you believe the way you do because you also have a belief and faith in the information you have. :) 
      April 17, 2021 4:22 PM MDT
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  • 19937
    For someone who wasn't getting their britches in an uproar, you seem to have done just that.  I merely expressed an opposing view from yours.  It doesn't mean that I intended to insult you or tried to alter your faith in what you believe.  You have an absolute right to believe in the Bible, in God or whatever else.  It's called blind faith - having a strong belief in something you can't see.  I believe that religion is used to control the masses.  Religious leaders attempt to keep their flock in line on the theory that they will go to hell if they don't please God.  Religious leaders want you to believe what they tell you is their truth.  I have no such belief and, knowing what we now know about science, astronomy and such, I find it difficult to believe in most of the tales in the Bible.  
      April 17, 2021 10:53 PM MDT
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  • 10052
    That last paragraph - really makes sense. And what version of God/Gods are based upon what part of the world the early humans lived in? 

    I think I might most relate to early Americans' animistic faith. I feel such a connection to nature, animals and all of it seems to be miraculous to me. Outdoors and away from human intervention of any sort, that's when I feel a presence of God. 

      April 17, 2021 8:56 PM MDT
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  • 10052
    Didn't the prophet Abraham have multiple wives? What about the another prophet that married a prostitute? 

    Again, different interpretations, I guess?

    I just don't understand religious faith. 
      April 17, 2021 8:33 PM MDT
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  • 34264
    Does not mean it was allowed...just something men were doing. 
    Abraham also lied a lot about his wife. Claiming she was his sister. Believing Kings would kill him to have his wife.
      April 18, 2021 5:27 AM MDT
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  • 10052
    So, the prophets are still bestowed the honor of being prophets, even if they did things that weren't allowed, is that what you're saying? 

      April 19, 2021 6:56 PM MDT
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  • 53509

     

      Now you have me curious: who was it that bestowed the honor of the title of prophet on them?

      All human beings are fallible. In Christian teachings, no human being is without sin, and all fall short of the Glory of God. As such, even prophets had faults, some of those faults were quite grievous. All believers suffer a crisis of faith every now and then. Look at all the references to people questioning God, challenging God. It’s not unimaginable that prophets did things that were outside of God’s expectations.
    ~

      April 19, 2021 7:54 PM MDT
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  • 34264
    Just because something is recorded in the Bible does not mean it is approved.  It just means people were doing it. 

    Bible never sanctioned polygamy nor child sacrifice. 
      April 17, 2021 12:51 PM MDT
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  • 10052
    I thought prophets were the sanctioners? Abraham? 

    Does everyone in your church/faith community share the same beliefs as you on everything that is sinful or wrong in the eyes of God? Or are there variances among you? Maybe that's a good place to start. 

    I'm thinking of God telling someone to kill his own child to prove his faith/loyalty and then said "nah, just testing ya, buddy". I forget who it was. 
    I do understand the undoing of blood sacrifices that rusure mentioned. I remember that now. 
      April 17, 2021 8:38 PM MDT
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  • 34264
    Nope. They were not God or gods. They were human men and women who failed to do everything correctly as do we all. 

    I disagree with most churches. Most do not even preach the what is right and wrong. Just the prosperity gophel. (Which is in the Bible) but that is a whole other topic.   Bible is clear on what is and is not wrong.

    And as Abraham knew: 
    1. God does not want child/human sacrifice.  
    2. God had already promised him that He would make a great nation through Abraham's son Issac. (Issac must live for this to come to pass)
    3. Abraham told Issac that God would provide the sacrifice. (Which He did in the form of a ram) 
    4. So Abraham did not believe that he would be returning home without his son alive. As he told the workers who were with them. The boy and I will go up to make the sacrifice to God. And then WE will return. 
      April 18, 2021 5:51 AM MDT
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  • 10052
    Women prophets in the Bible? I don't remember that at all! 

    I appreciate your efforts to explain. That you're not part of a church or faith community kind of makes it impossible to answer that part of my question. 

    I guess what I really do not understand is how there is so much divide amongst the millions of people who identify as Christians about certain issues; homosexuality and marriage equality,  abortion, transgender rights, and political affiliation to name a few. What I usually here is "Well, they aren't REAL Christians". What does that mean?  I've tried to get people to explain to me why, for example, adultery isn't raged against by the religious right the way that homosexuality is.  I've tried to get numerous people to explain to me how their Christianity coincides with their support of evil-doers and hate mongers, racists, adulterers, rapists, even pedophiles! No one can explain it in a way I can understand. 

    I feel like what you're saying is that this part of the story of Abraham was a story to try to get people to believe that if you trust God, it'll all be okay. Is that pretty much it? I mean, if Abraham already knew 1-4, it wasn't really much of a test, was it? 

    Again, I appreciate your replies and hope you recognize that I truly am trying to gain some understanding. 
      April 19, 2021 7:20 PM MDT
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  • 34264
    I was a member of the same church for about 10 yrs. We had a question about something we were reading in the Bible. It really did not line up with what the Pastor was preaching.  My husband asked for a meeting (very large church) he did not get one.  He did speak to the couple next in charge. And they basically said I understand your confusion but we believe what Pastor XYZ teaches here. My husband simply said "Ok so Pastor XYZ is the god here."  And that was the last time we attended that church.


    People disagree because as my former church...they do not want to let the Bible be the boss. And many do not even read it to know what it says. Most is from ignorance of the Bible and misunderstanding of what little they did read. 

    As far as Abraham...yes he knew 1-4 but he still had to trust God. And God seen that he was willing to go through with it.  Personally, I do not think I could. 

    Yes, there were female prophets, female teachers in the early church and even a female LEADER of Israel recorded in the Bible. 

      April 19, 2021 7:54 PM MDT
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