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Discussion » Questions » Current Events and News » In the climate of defunding police and less enforcement of laws, have you heard of the increase in shoplifting and other property crimes?

In the climate of defunding police and less enforcement of laws, have you heard of the increase in shoplifting and other property crimes?

 

  Also increases in major violent crimes, such as murder, attempted murder, aggravated assault, etc. 

:(

Posted - June 18, 2021

Responses


  • 44173
    Yes, we have had 50% more murders compared to last year and many more shootings. They don't report minor crimes here.
      June 18, 2021 8:22 AM MDT
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  • 19942
    Crime is definitely up in NYC.  I'm not sure if it has something to do with defunding the police or bail reform or stop and frisk being discontinued.  Could conceivably be a combination of everything including the closing down of almost everything due to Covid.  At any rate, if they don't get a handle on crime soon, NYC will be in serious trouble.  Who would want to make this a tourist stop if they are afraid to walk in the streets in broad daylight or take public transportation?
      June 18, 2021 10:24 AM MDT
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  • 2969
    I vaguely remember a movie many years ago called "New York" or something like that.  I only saw the trailer which depicted complete chaos in the streets and  kill or be killed mentality by those who lived there.   I wish I could remember the name, but it seemed to foretell current events In NY. 
      June 19, 2021 4:31 PM MDT
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  • 19942
    New York was crime-ridden back in the 70s and 80s.  It improved after that, but in the past couple of years, it's rising again.  The only movie I can think of might be Gangs of New York.
      June 19, 2021 7:13 PM MDT
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  • 16197
    I honestly don't think that a spotlight on police brutality has had much of an effect on crime. COVID had a lot more to do with it - people losing their jobs made them despondent, depressed and in some cases desperate to provide for themselves and their families. Every major economic downturn sees an increase in crime as a knock-on effect.
      June 18, 2021 11:19 PM MDT
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  • 52903

     

      While you raise valid points, there are indirect and roundabout effects that the spotlight on police brutality has had on crime in the US for the past 10 to 14 months. Australia may be different, I do not know. Certain mayors, governors, city council persons, aldermen, civic leaders, senators, other policy makers and other politicians etc., fueled the outcry for “defunding” police agencies as a main or primary reaction to police brutality, not taking into full consideration that it might not actually be a solution to the problem. In some arguments, merely defunding wasn’t even good enough; abolishing law enforcement agencies and/or law enforcement itself was an accompanying shout. The populace picked up on the defunding platform and made it front and center of protests. In turn, the loud, insistent, and continued demands for defunding weighed heavily on decision-makers with the power and authority to realize it, and apparently without even analyzing the long-term or underlying results of defunding, numerous jurisdictions in both large and small cities across the country gutted police budgets. 

      Coupled with the above, vilification of the rank and fine police officer also occurred in 2020 in larger extents than ever before; even the good officers who follow the law and respect people’s rights. Backlash against all policing, not just poor policing, meant that all police officers were the problem. Media presentations of law enforcement followed the tried and true “of if it bleeds, it leads”, so there was even less incentive for them to bolster their salvos in the ratings war and to pad their profit margins by broadcasting or publishing positive views of good officers doing well. It soon became both frustrating and fruitless for the good officers to do their jobs, because not only were they being lumped in with the bad apples, actual retaliation and revenge-based acts were perpetrated against officers, any officers, random officers, even if or when they were not violating any laws or violating anyone’s rights. Some officers were being reprimanded or sanctioned in blanket policies that restricted their ability to do their jobs in the manner that they had been trained. The everyday enforcement of laws suffered a hands-off approach.

      COVID19 spurned a combined movement of emptying jails and prisons on one hand and erasing bail on the other hand. Fewer suspects, fewer convicted people, fewer felons were staying in custody, and fewer new arrestees, fewer people charged with crimes, and fewer people found guilty of crimes were going into custody. Almost everything related to policing was placed under a racially-determined microscope, and legislatures decided that the way to address unfairness.

      The masses picked up on all of these events melding together, and those with criminal plans or who lead criminal lifestyles acknowledged that there were fewer and fewer negative consequences to attempting crime or carrying out criminal acts. Just have a cell phone ready to film the police responding to a call or doing a vehicle stop, and public anger that sided against the police could find ways to make even innocuous contact into a cause celebré of “those evil cops”. In some situations where someone might have called the police in previous times, 2020 had some people reluctant to do so, which meant that some criminal acts had zero law enforcement notice, in turn bolstering criminals in their new untouchable status.

      It started a mass exodus of police officers from their departments, either quitting the force, resigning, or early retirement. COVID19 contributed too, by cutting down on both recruiting of new officers and fewer academy classes, lower numbers of recruits in the classes that did form. The overall outcome meant fewer police officers on the beat to address the normal levels of calls for service, and fewer well-trained or experienced officers.

      In some cities, towns, and counties, the noticeable increase in law enforcement response times began to be felt, both by law-abiding people and by criminals. Even if and when police did respond, there was less likelihood of going to jail or staying in jail, so some criminals didn’t care either way. 

      The very people who were supposedly being helped by the liberal view of how law enforcement and the justice system should work now make up the highest percentage of victims of violent crime. Gang activity soars with the disbandment of police units that specifically handled that mission, thanks to defunding and scuttling of departments. Minorities are often the primary targets of crime, both because we’re easy pickings for criminals and because the public notice and public response is lessened due to lower levels of media interest. [Case in point, it’s less likely that the average Black girl or woman being missing, kidnapped, or killed will get air time than will “pretty” or “attractive” young blonde girl or woman as the victim of the same crimes.] As criminals are subjected to less and less scrutiny and have fewer deterrents against them, it invites more and more opportunities for them to ply their chosen paths in life.

      As for the economics of COVID19, far more people in the US are on the receiving end of government monies with little requirements to lift a finger than one would expect. Food programs, housing programs, rent forgiveness, mortgage forgiveness, small business grants and no-interest loans  It’s true that millions of people are worse off financially than pre-COVID19, but there enough remedies available that personally I don’t believe the average citizen is the one out there committing violent felonies against persons as a result of not having money. My opinion is that the majority of these increased crime numbers come from people with criminal tendencies knowing they can get away with it more easily than ever before. Some of them are people who were already committing crimes, others are newly indoctrinated and Neely empowered by the lack of being held accountable and or paying consequences. It’s easier nowadays to get away with crime, so it’s open season.

      None of this is either simple or streamlined point A to point B one exact thing leads to another exact thing.
    ~

     

    This post was edited by Randy D at June 24, 2021 9:10 PM MDT
      June 19, 2021 9:10 AM MDT
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  • 16197
    There are three main problems with policing - one is pretty much worldwide, the other two are American.
    The worldwide one is police CULTURE (not the union, that's an entirely different can of worms). 85% plus of all cops are good cops, but the "thin blue line" closes ranks around the bad ones, protecting them. When the bad apples are outed (and fired), the problem goes away. I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen, though.
    The American problems - one is the ridiculous availability of guns. So many potential suspects are armed that cops pretty much have to approach every situation with weapons drawn.
    The other is the slapdash method of police training. Using Finland as a counter example, it takes 2.5 years to become an officer in Finland - it's a college diploma. During that time, character testing is exhaustive, as is training in defusing situations without the need to resort to weapons. In the US, 21 weeks and you're given a badge and a gun. It's not enough. This post was edited by Slartibartfast at June 20, 2021 1:19 AM MDT
      June 20, 2021 1:19 AM MDT
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  • 435
    I saw where Walgreens closed 17 stores in San Francisco because of shoplifting as now takes $950.00 worth to be a felony.
      June 19, 2021 4:05 PM MDT
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  • 16197
    Ever heard of the Seventh Amendment? (Of course not, the only Amendment anybody cares about is the second). Any matter involving $20 or more can go to a full jury trial.
      June 20, 2021 1:22 AM MDT
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  • 52903

     

      The problem is that no “matter” even exists to be presented to a court of law if no person is charged with a crime in the first place. In order for charges to be filed, the district attorney’s office must receive the case from the police department. In order for the police department to do that, probable cause that a crime or infraction of law must be established, AND a person or persons suspected of having committed it, along with evidence tying that person or those persons to the act must all be identified. In order to determine probable cause and to identify suspects, an investigation must take place, or the police officer(s) must have witness the act in progress. Absent direct knowledge of the suspect(s) having committed the act, the police department must be called upon to respond to a call for service at the scene or to wherever witnesses are located. The breakdown is that in the jurisdiction stated above, under new guidelines, police offers have strict orders not to respond to any calls about non-violent property crimes that involve alleged loss of $950 or less.  Previously charged as a felony, it is now a misdemeanor to steal property, making it less urgent or important for a law enforcement respond. Your example of $20 doesn’t truly apply if it’s not even placed before a judge. There is what is written into law, there is what exists in Amendments, and there is what actually takes place in everyday life. Those three are not always the same thing. Criminals and would-be criminals are often some of the people who know laws the best, it is on their interest to do so as they ply their craft, and some of them educate themselves quite well as a protective shield. Selecting items under the legal dollar limit that will get police officers on the scene is one of the easiest ways to avoid negative consequences of theft. Additionally, the criminals also know that property owners or store employees cannot touch them or attempt to stop them.. 

      Crime does pay.

      June 20, 2021 2:01 AM MDT
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  • 32527
    Still not a felony.  And that is only of the local PA decided to push the case.
      June 20, 2021 7:09 AM MDT
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  • 435
    Randy D covered what I said in fine fashion. I rest my case and wow!! there are 7 amendments.
      June 24, 2021 7:30 PM MDT
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  • 2706
    Yes. Here in Michigan Detroit is at present ranked as the most violent city in America. Crime in general and violent crime specifically is on the rise. Even with such statistics staring them in the face, our politicians are still talking about defunding the police there. If they succeed in doing so, it would unleash a level of mayhem such as they have never seen.

      Thankfully, Grand Rapids, the city I live in, has a low rate of crime/violent crime. Of course, that would change if they decided to defund the police here.
      June 19, 2021 7:20 PM MDT
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  • 52903

     

      I’m glad you live in a safer area than Detroit.
    ~

      June 19, 2021 7:40 PM MDT
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  • 2706
    Thank you. I'm glad too. :)
      June 20, 2021 12:35 AM MDT
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  • 32527

    Sadly, most of the places that are defunding police are also the places that try to disarm their citizens as well.

    But as stated by people living in those areas...crime increases when police are defunded. Some have even reversed course because of the rise in crime. This post was edited by my2cents at June 20, 2021 7:35 AM MDT
      June 20, 2021 7:14 AM MDT
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  • 6098
    Where we live the liberals appointed a task force to "investigate" our PD but nobody defunded anybody.  Because many realize that their lives and property would be worth nothing without a strong PD.  Gerry and I responded to all that weird business by more greatly funding the police and various law enforcement organizations than we already were doing. 
      June 24, 2021 8:11 PM MDT
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