Discussion»Statements»Rosie's Corner» Allegedly "aliens could be listening to us from 29 potentially habitable planets." So then we'd have a choice of another home OUT THERE?
I was watching a show on TV the other day ... and they were hypothesizing that modern AI is a "Trojan Horse" by aliens to take over our planet. I couldn't help wonder ... if the aliens want to take over our planet, why go to the trouble of building up our technology? Why not just invade and kill us all? (Since their goal is allegedly to replace us all with robotic "life" anyway, under the proposed scenario.) I swear, some of these conspiracy theorists forget the simplest solution is the best.
I'm sure if there are extraterrestrials with the technology level of us, or higher, they have something similar to SETI. We've been broadcasting since the early 1900s. Not sure how far the signals would have traveled since then. But I don't know that I'd want aliens to judge us based on receiving (say) "War of the Worlds". Would they decide we were too hostile to let loose upon the galaxy?
Of course ... if WE were to receive signals that sounded like they were from a potentially hostile planet, it would give a HUGE boost to our nations working together for a common cause. And working together to expand our "space territory".
Since the 70s I thought the only way man kind would stop fighting down here on Earth would be if they found a mutual enemy and went out to kick some alien butt (that is if aliens have butts). Cheers!
Ya think? Ever hear about the WAR OF THE WORLDS radio fiasco on October 30, 1938? Orson Welles chose to present that as breaking news on his radio program. Invasion of aliens on the east coast. You know what happened? Everyone panicked. Running around frightened to death. Coming together? Maybe eventually if it had lasted long enough. I don't know how long it took to calm folks down. The reason I know about this (I was one year old) is because my mom told me all about it. She ilved through. She was listening to the program and KNEW is was just a program. She had to go to the drugstore to pick something up and when she got there people were panicked and scared to death and she didn't know what was happening. When she found she felt like laughing because it was so absurd. I don't know if that's any indication of what would happen today but it doesn't bode well. Ya think? I'm gonna ask Walt.
I think you could ignore any radio signals transmitted until perhaps 1920, at the earliest, because those prior to that were ate very low power and until speech radion was developed, in Morse Code.
So if we start at 1920... any signals that escaped the Earth's upper atmosphere and radiated into space would have travelled 100 light-years, which is not far astronomically. They would be extremely weak though because their intensity falls by an inverse-square law.
The whole notion though is based on some very unsafe assumptions:
That there are inhabited planets close enough to Earth to be significant here. That their inhabitants are sufficiently technically advanced to detect and analyse radio signals from elsewhere in the Galaxy. That those people have the will to travel vast distances to other planets even if they have the means to do so in any practical sense. -That they are automatically hostile, an attitude not helped by the term 'alien' having become somewhat derogatory when used to describe fellow human beings who simply live on another area of the same planet. That we would ever be able to visit them ! Though it's unsafe to dismiss the idea out of hand, it's as well to realise the meaning and significance of the unit of distance, the Light-year.
The "citizen science" project, SETI, has been running for a good many years. It may have revealed things of astronomical interest, but as far as I know it has detected nothing that can be ascribed to a technically-advanced society on some other planet.
I'm almost certain I wouldn't bother with homo saps Walt. And I AM ONE OF THEM. Here and there we find snippets of potential. But mostly we see wars and hatred and cruelty. What civilization would welcome THAT low class low grade "life" into its midst? Would you think we were worth redeeming? There is nothing of value to be learned from us. We eliminate the good people. We extinctify dissidents. We have contempt for whistleblowers whose only goal is to TELL THE TRUTH. Seriously. Thank you for your thoughtful opining. We can't be the only "thinking" lifeforms in existence. We have hugely enormous egos an think a lot of ourselves. Arrogant egotistic greedy selfish mean hateful. At least currently that is what surrounds us envelops us and from which there seems to be no escape. Happy Friday to thee and thine Walt! :)
Yeah and when they see Trump on their space TV they think the TV color tint must be broken because Trump appears to be orange. Cheers!
This post was edited by Nanoose at June 25, 2021 2:22 AM MDT
There must be an endless supply of orange dye Nanoose. Don Guantanamo has cornered the market on it. He thinks it makes him look "better". The orange man. Say orange these days and what comes to mind? Thank you for your reply and Happy Friday to you and your family m'dear! :)
Hardly. Unless we can break laws of physics, and travel faster than the speed of light; we will never be able to travel to other solar systems. Plus, the idea of using wormholes is science fiction.
This post was edited by ONeg-84 at June 25, 2021 2:24 AM MDT
If the aliens have quantum physics, we could theoretically link computers regardless of distance and transfer data. So if we find a way to transfer consciousness into non-biological constructs ... we could send our consciousness through the link into a "golem" at the other end.
Among other things this is what I value about you Walt. "....if we find..." and "...we could...". Opening up endless possibilities. Sorry for the intrusion. I couldn't help it!
So you are firmly stuck in what we know today then? I see. Two hundred years ago we could not have imagined our lives today. I think you are unable to imagine two hundred hence. Grounded in the now forever? Different strokes. Thank you for your reply and Happy Friday to thee and thine O.
This post was edited by RosieG at June 25, 2021 2:26 AM MDT
The key word is "potentially". Earth's biosphere is dependent on more than just liquid water, there also has to be sufficient candlepower to sustain a significant level of photosynthesis, for long enough - which lets out classes K and M (most of the stars in our galaxy are red dwarfs, which do not emit enough light in the "goldilocks zone"), and classes O, B and A - not old enough. That leaves F and G (our star, Sol, is class G). Kepler didn't detect many transits across those, especially rocky terrestrial ones. Most of those are "super earths", with between 2.5 and 7 times Earth's mass. And surface gravity. Fancy weighing that much?
Informationally this reply is very dense m'dear. I read it three times and still a bit above my braingrade but I appreciate it nonetheless. So do you rule them out or just reduce the potentials? Will homo saps ever call anyplace but earth HOME? Will we ultimately abandon it for "parts unknown"? Did we abandon elsewhere to come here billions of years ago? Whither we goest we do not know. Whither we came from/orginated is murky too. What do we KNOW FOR SURE R? Thank you for your reply! It rocks even if I don't understand every single bit of it! :)
This post was edited by RosieG at June 25, 2021 5:29 AM MDT
The summary is that there are too many major variables.
The chances of another planet similar to ours, in a similar solar system, at least in our region of the Galaxy, is very low. Or to put it another way, such planets may well exist but as a tiny fraction of the total number.
Then the chances of that planet hosting a people (of whatever biology) at least as technically advanced as us, very small too. There is a curious human trait engendered by space-fiction to assume that any society living on any other planet is far more advanced than ours; but there is no reason to think that way. It could just as easily be in its own Stone Age!
Then if we do assume that advanced society on that planet does exist, what are its chances of not only spotting our Earth but then studying it in more detail that simply noting it exists and perhaps calculating its size and mass, orbiting a rather ordinary star?
Finally on top of all that compounding of chance, what are the chances it is even close enough astronomically for we and they to study each other? Let alone communicate? The nearest star is about 4 light-years away, but if that was holding an "Earthy" planet with our advanced cosmic neighbours, even at that very close range a conversation would be rather disjointed even if we could hear each other!
As usual all your questions/points are very excellent Durdle. But here's what I struggle with. Homo saps must be on the lowest rung of existence. Lacking most importantly logic common sense and dare I say "intelligence". After being in existence for however many years you choose to accept we still can't get along. We are all in the same boat going to the same utlimate demise so reason and logic would tell us to ROW IN THE SAME DIRECTION. Cooperate. Conciliate. Do we? No. Why is that? I think it's because we are lowest form of "intelligent" life. I can't believe we are the highest or even middling. Now how many billions of galaxies are there "out there"? I think it's very short-sighted to believe we are the only ones or the smartest ones or the best of the breed. I know lifeforms elsewhere are different from us. I LOVE the bar scene in was it Star Wars with all manner of creature hobnobbing. Finally all of it is just too big for me to accept as written. Evolution. Cut an dried. OR alternatively what the BIBLE says. Cut and dried. The homo sap attempt to make sense of it. I think there is a gigantic amount we don't know and a minscopic amount we THINK we know. Here am I rattling on and one which is my wont. Why is that? I'm not alone. I know that. But so many people get caught up in the edges and cracks and crevices. They never think about "the big picture". They're too caught up what benefits self and in nutjob crackpot causes. I mean c'mon being consumed by a comic evil cult personality as millions are by Don Guantanamo? Doesn't that strike you as being exeedingly ODD? Thank you for your fine reply and of course I shall reread it as I often do what you contribute. I'd like to reach a phase where I think I might have handle on something. So far I'm not there yet. Are you?
I know you know I struggle with that all the time R. I think it's just way too much for me to even begin to grasp. But I stay in there pitching or whatever it is. Some days I just am overwhelmed with the BIGNESS of everything. Do you get overwhelmed like that about that? Thank you for your reply and Happy Saturday to thee and thine! :)
Walt O'Reagun 