Even though I said and still say, we should give him the benefit ot the doubt, yes, that is a Nazi salute. Maybe it was accidental, maybe he was trying to slip something by us or send a signal. I don't know and neither does the ADL. Nor do the white supremacists who are celebrating the gesture. Only Musk knows.
What I find offensive ( and suspicious) are the attempts to paint similar gestures by other politicians as some kind of proof, that everybody does it. A Nazi salute is a specific gesture, starting by touching the chest and including the height and rigidity of the arm. Musk did everything except say Seig Heil.
Perhaps if Musk was not backing far right groups with neo- Nazi tie in Europe, this would not be so questionable.
Macron's gesture is similar, but without the same thrust and rigidity. But it does raise doubts about whether Musk was awkwardly trying to make a similar gesture. https://x.com/i/status/1882553556093571563
After some consideration and now knowing that Musk repeated the gesture, I now believe he deliberately made the Nazi salute. If you looked at the second link in my previous post, it is especially obvious. The question is why he did it. Possibly just to troll people and to see how far they would go to defend him. This is what tolitarian governments do. They get people to not believe what they with their own eyes. Now they have found out how far they can go.
Right-wingers like to do things that in their words will make the libs heads explode. Musk is sitting back and enjoying the brouhaha he created. I'm assuming that was his intent.
As for saying the ADL said it wasn't a Nazi salute, aside from them not being the ultimate expert, it's just possible they were feeling somewhat charitably toward Musk. They met with before this happened and afterward, Musk began censoring pro-Palistine content and closing accounts on his free speech, uncensored platform. Just because we may approve of his censorship, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
All we want is for everyone to leave the kids alone. Do whatever you want in your home or to an extent in public with consenting ADULTS. But stay away from the children.
This post was edited by my2cents at January 26, 2025 4:10 PM MST
I agree with some of your posted thoughts and issues that can occur about people who are transgendered. And, as an adult male who is gay, I just wanted to add from where most of my thoughts occur about "Keep it all away from children."
I knew very young I was attracted to other boys and men. Yet, as a very young boy through young adulthood, I grew up with teachers and tons of adults whom all often talked about their opposite-sex partners/spouses. I even met many of these male-female couples as a young boy when big events happened at school and/or in public. I knew of no one who was outwardly gay (except, as a boy, even I knew Liberace was, ha). I did not even know there was a word for it. I just knew what my natural feelings and thoughts were.
Yet, since childhood, after seeing and being exposed to all the constant heterosexual straight lifestyle, and having heterosexual married parents (a male and a female), I still grew up gay.
My point: Just being exposed to things does not suddenly convert one to whatever.
And to your point -- then we all need to also consider keeping all that heterosexual married spouses stuff in the bedroom and out of the public eye. (That part is somewhat of a joke but I know I've certainly seen a lifetime of heterosexual lifestyles and people). Again, I understand from where you're coming -- but I come from another life-long perspective.
EDIT: Geez -- I am so wordy lately! Ha! :)
This post was edited by WelbyQuentin at January 27, 2025 2:15 AM MST
I get what you are saying. But that is not what I am talking about.
I am talking about the books they are putting in the schools now. Books with images that are not allowed to be posted on this site. Because they are graphic porn. That does not belong in a school. If your straight teachers where telling you or writing books about their sex life it also would not be exceptable. Drag queens do not belong in schools.
We used to teach children to be happy with themselves. To be themselves. Now we teach them if they are a girl who likes sports or vice versa then they were born in the wrong body. We should teach children to be confident in who they are, to be comfortable in their own skin. And should never try to physically (surgically or chemically change them)
No adult who is not the parent should be discussing sex with a minor child.
EDIT: ( After posting my original post, I later have added now this EDIT; it is in parentheses here -- I looked up/researched a bit more on specific titles that are so-called porn etc and/or banned children's young adult books in various places. I can understand the controversy and realize the subject matter is more than 'sex-ed books' I mention in my original post that follows after my EDIT-here-in-parentheses.. However, I also see how it can be considered overreaction -- if I had to look as hard as I had to look for just "words"/details for the specific details in specific books of what is objectionable material in the books, when I finally found some specific details I can understand that some of it is overreaction in my opinion. If news posts won't even verbally discuss details -- just broad undefined words like "porn" and "adult" -- I question how bad it is. But those same news posts go into details reporting about violence details and murder details. Again, I do see there is more to the the discussion than what I mention in my original post that follows.)
I'm glad you further explained because that's not what I got from your first reply to Slartibartfast's answer. I get your points, too, yes.
I do know many many many many many many teachers who do not tell girls that they are in the wrong body if they enjoy sports. And I know many many many many females - - and many young female students, school-aged ---- who are great in sports and fine with their female bodies.
I actually know of no teacher who has ever said change your body to a student. Or vice versa with boys/males. Teachers whom I know all say the things you said they should- - be comfortable in their own skin and encourage them to be so.
There were sex education classes in one year of my education, yes, when I was growing up. Male-female procreation, humans species, or whatever. Puberty. The guys were in the class together. I looked at it all as education. If the current so-called porn books are simply sex ed books with naked bodies in them - - that's tame to what some students are talking about amongst themselves. A naked body illustration, within specific contexts, is okay with me. (Though I also do believe that students' parents/guardians are to be informed that their children will be exposed to the illustrations in the sex-ed class. And parents should have the right to not have their children in the class.) What some call porn, others do not.
Anyway -- but also, a huge yes to some of what I've seen in some of your posts -- I agree with you-- some things need to stay in the students' private lives and within their lives with/within their families/parents/guardians.
This post was edited by WelbyQuentin at January 29, 2025 2:51 PM MST
(I added an EDIT above to my original "first #4reply-post." All along I knew of the controversy [controversial books in children's libraries/schools] but finally researched a bit more. I realize there is more to the topic than what I said in my original first "#4 reply post" so I added the EDIT.)
This post was edited by WelbyQuentin at January 29, 2025 2:51 PM MST
(Another late post. I'm posting this after my other ones.)
And, yes - - if there are graphic images of sex, porn in books; teachers talking about sex details - - not good. Agreed. I do apologize for going completely off topic of Spunky's original question and your original reply to an answer. I understand your original concerns/points.
I see what you mean about the media, they are not reporting it. Some for fear of being label homo/transphobic. Some because of rules cannot show it. (Just as I can not post images here) There are parents who got the books from their school libraries and began to read them and show the images at school board meetings. Who were removed for obscene material. If anything is too obscene for a school board meeting it does not belong in the schools library. These are not a sex Ed type books.
If you are truly curious about it, there is a group called Gays Against Groomers that can explain better than I can.
This post was edited by my2cents at January 29, 2025 8:52 AM MST
Jane S 