Right wingers say we should support Israel NO MATTER WHAT.. I'm a Jew, but I can't buy into NO MATTER WHAT. Do you?

Re: "The O'Bama administration has not been very good in it's diplomacy with Israel"

Specifically how?

Refusing to spend much more time than a handshake with BenNet.  Lifting the anti-nuke ban thing with Iran. 

@bhwilson -- Meanwhile, back in the Reality-Based Community....

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/13/politics/us-israel-military-aid-package-mou/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_nuclear_deal_framework

Hello again, BH:

I think you ARE a bit confused...  BEFORE the Iran agreement, there was NO nuclear ban as you suggest.  The Iranians were building a bomb as fast as they could.  Short of war, there was NO stopping them.  At the VERY LEAST, the Iran nuclear deal DELAYED the Iranians quest for a bomb for at least 10 years.

I DON'T support Netanyahu's policies, but I DON'T wanna see Israel DEMOLISHED, either.  So, IF there WAS a ban on them building a bomb, and Obama LIFTED it, making it EASIER for Iran to DESTROY Israel, I'd HATE him too. 

But, he didn't, so I don't.


excon

Hello BH:

Nahhh..  Obama and I are in agreement..  Like me, he supports the underdog too..  Ok, I'll stop being cute..

The TWO state solution has been American policy from the git go.  Obama and I support a two state solution..  But, since a two state solution hasn't been forthcoming, Israel decided to build settlements ON the land that was NOT theirs under the two state solution..  And, they KEEP building them, thereby making a two state solution, should it ever come to pass, totally meaningless..

Obama let Netanyahu know that we didn't LIKE building settlements ON Palestinian land, and Netanyahu told Obama to screw himself..

Does that explain my position better?

excon

@excon -- This is one area where you and I differ.

I think the "two-state solution" where one state is the heavily (and nuclear)-armed Jewish State of Israel and the other state is a compartively toothless ghettoized Palestinian homeland is scarcely an improvement over the current situation.

Instead, I think there will be one of two outcomes:

1) Israel continues to occupy and oppress Palestinians until they give up and emigrate elsewhere

2) The outside world imposes a one-state solution where Palestinians are granted full and equal rights and Israel is
converted to a secular democracy, very likely requiring international peace-keepers for a few decades until the hatred
level dies down.

Either way, it ends up being a one-state solution.

Hello again, OS:

Yes, but there's a YOOOGE difference between the two..  If the Palestinians were given equal rights in the State of Israel, in short order Israel would CEASE being a Jewish state.  It would become an ARAB state, and the Arabs will treat the Jews, like the Jews treat the Arabs, or WORSE..

Plus, being toothless, poor, and FREE, is MUCH different than being toothless, poor, and OCCUPIED.

excon This post was edited by excon at December 26, 2016 8:58 AM MST

@excon -- I agree a Jewish-Arab Israel not fully committed to being a secular state would result in the Arab population getting "payback" for the decades of European Jewish occupation of their territory.

I disagree being "poor, toothless, and free" (and dominated by a comparative Jewish superpower) is functionally much different than being poor, toothless and occupied. Unless the rest of the world (esp. the United States) is committed to the territorial integrity of the hypothetical Arab Palestine, Israel will just continue to effectively dominate/occupy it.

Im fairly convinced number one will be the actual outcome.

I just started reading this thread, and although I expected the term self hating Jew to crop up, in reference to a Jewish person who doesn't support Israel's policies, I didn't think It would be the very first post. Now we only need Hitler to show.